Omg all tokens on Hive are shit!
Okay, all jokes and clickbait aside, let's talk about tokens on Hive for a bit. I'm going to be honest, aside from a few of them (SPS, LEO, (posh :p) and very few others) I would never put a single hive into them. You may ask me why and yes that is what this post is going to be about but also about some other things and something I would like to help with in the very near future.
Although hive-engine brought us the ability that Steemit never managed to and everyone was very hyped about being able to create proof of brain tokens (no, not the very unoriginally named PoB token with a very unoriginal supply nor any real innovation behind it), it seemed that not many took the opportunity to create some real value behind them. There have quite frankly not been any that have caught my interest where I'd be "oh wow, I really would like to earn and invest in this token (with the above mentioned being the exception)". This might just be me who used to hunt altcoins back in the day on bitcointalk and became quite strict in terms of distribution and premines, etc, but goddamn do many of those tokens have really awful distributions.
Hey, I get it, it cost quite a bit of Hive to create the token and front-end and enable staking and all other costs associated with hive-engine (don't get me started on deposits and withdrawals still being 1% each way), but are you really going to give yourself 20-50% of the supply from day 1? and no, putting some aside towards "curation accounts" doesn't change the fact you are giving yourself an ungodly amount of a premine. Who would want to invest in something like that? I'm not dissing all of them, I realize some of them have some solid plans on what to do with the premines that would possibly go back to making the token and ecosystem better, but there have been very little proof of that happening with a majority of them.
You may say that the Hive ecosystem is too small thus not enough value has gone into the tokens to give them a fighting chance to prove themselves and you may not be completely wrong there. I do think, however, that if distribution was better more serious investors would have taken it more seriously. There is plenty of proof of that with LEO and how well it did and is doing and even more proof with SPS and all the other tokens involved with @splinterlands. It wouldn't just be @azircon and @onealfa interested in investing in them if they showed some more promise, there would definitely be more bigger stakeholders but also medium and smaller stakeholders if things would seem a bit more fair all around. I know I would be interested but that the initial distribution has been something that has pushed me off very hard.
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Source
Distribution
You know what would be cool? More airdrops.
Not many of the tokens I have looked at have even bothered doing airdrops aside from the ones mentioned, they all seem to want to give themselves a huge chunk while having the community work for them, there's nothing wrong with the other but the former I do not agree with.
It is one of the reasons I respect what @3speak is doing with their 1:1 airdrop to hive holders, same goes for @ragnarok.game and something I need to again mention without seeming like I'm making this post about POSH as well, to actually buy into your own token. Is that too baffling for some of you? Is it blowing your mind?
But acid, why should I buy up my own token I spent 500 hive to create when I can just give myself x% of the starting supply, silly.
To show us that you are truly invested in it and want it to do well? The old saying of "put your money where your mouth is" fits rather well here and I don't see many doing it. Just paying for token creation is not enough in my opinion.
Tokenized communities
There are so many ways you could distribute a new token to authors it hurts when I think about how no one does it so let's talk about communities for a bit. I think one of the biggest reasons why no one is even attempting to create tokens for their communities is either that they've seen how unsuccessful and uninteresting most tribe tokens are or that they think it is too expensive to either create one or having to pay 1% to deposit and withdraw each time. 1% may sound like a lot but deposit 100 Hive back and forth 50 times and you'll be down 100 Hive. (yes I know, the 100 Hive will keep decreasing thus 1% will be more like 0.099 Hive after the first deposit, etc so it's only correct if you deposit and withdraw exactly 100 Hive each time).
I don't think it's the latter that is stopping most people, though, I think it's mainly how so many have not been successful and I believe unfair distribution is a big part of it so it has gotten me into thinking. How come no one has used this immutable database we have to distribute tokens in other ways than "earn it or buy them"? I realize the way that one coin did their distribution on Steemit back in the day was rather stupid and reckless if you remember which one I'm talking about that only cared about what your reputation number was which determined how many tokens you got. Surely there most be better ways, though?
As many of you know we at @ocd run a community incubation program where we support different communities to not just curate and reward authors posting and socializing in their community but also monetize curation and moderation which is something unheard of on Reddit but made possible on Hive.
So how could someone tokenize these communities and at the same time make sure they are distributed properly?
One idea I had in mind that I would like to try out with willing communities, is to distribute the initial airdrop based on authors, commenters and voters on posts submitted to your community. This is something that would make sense on many levels and retrospective airdrops are becoming quite popular in the crypto space. It fairly rewards those that who have made the community more active with their posts, and engagement and at the same time those who have voted posts in said community to help it grow. Naturally the leader of the community must have posted there as well and spent most of his voting power there too considering that's the niche he is interested in thus he is running the community and same goes for the moderators and helpers.
It also would not be difficult to track this data and determine what kind of airdrops everyone would get.
Let's take as an example the Architecture community ran by @storiesoferne and what you would query to get the data.
- Who has posted in the community
- How many posts has each of these users posted in the community
- How much rewards in total has each of these users earned in the community
- How many comments has each of these users posted in the community
- How much post rewards has each of these users earned in the community
- How much curation rewards has any hive account earned in the community
Now all you do is look at the data, determine how much % authors would get, how much % comments would get and how much % curators would get. Remove some muted accounts or known and unanimous bad apple accounts like haejin from the airdrop (or accounts that are curating with delegations of others such as @ocdb (unless they agree to distribute the airdrop with their delegators)) and you've got yourself a pretty good distribution from the get go.
Now of course with a market tied to the token you will have to expect quite a lot of sell pressure from suddenly airdropping a ton of tokens to everyone but at the same time you don't have to airdrop too much of the total supply initially or have a higher inflation to reward those that hold on to their tokens.
I am sure that not only would it get more people interested in investing into such tokens knowing they may be oversold due to the initial airdrop and depending on the plans of the community with the token, but it also removes the "premine" from the equation giving investors relief that there won't be a sudden owner going rogue and just dumping all his tokens either instantly once it hits a certain price and liquidity or that they keep selling consistently over time pretending to be putting it to work or whatever while others may be buying a token with no future in sight and maybe the intention was to always just make the most out of selling it after initial buildup. This also gives the creators/owners of the community a chance to not just earn the token themselves but also buy into it to show their community and other investors that they want it to succeed. It is way harder to sell stake you've put effort into earning compared to just having given yourself 50% of the supply a year ago for having created a token.
Future plans
OCD would like to help communities wanting to tokenize with funding and distribution help but similar to our requirements to joining the incubation if you are a tribe (very strict most often due to the distribution) we would reserve certain requirements of what you do with the token as well. This can of course be discussed but we believe that starting tokens the right way will bolster the community and the ecosystem of Hive a lot more and we would like to be part of it in an advisory way.
If you reading this are running a community and have thought about wanting to create a token for it but aren't too sure how to get started or if it is legal in your location to do so, feel free to get in touch with us on our Discord. We are of course going to prefer doing this with a community already in our incubation first because we know a lot more about the community and owner and it would probably be best to give it a try first but we also wouldn't mind incubating communities that do this kind of fair distribution of their niche community on their own - that would have to go through our community incubation application channel in that case.
Please let us know your thoughts regarding this, though. Before you start typing out a really long response about a certain token I would like to let you know that I have not been all that up to date whith what tokens exist nowadays and how they work or have been distributed so don't feel like I'm calling them all out for being "unfair" in this post.
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I'm saying this dip isn't the end of anything as far as it's concerned. Who's to say it wasn't overvalued long ago anyway and headed toward it's actual value now? How you look at it is, if you see something down, you look at it like a loss. I look at it like there's potential to reach new heights. I look at it like a simple shift in value, a price adjustment. Look at every crypto and you see this trend you try to use as an example for me, which means nothing except something is down in value on a market. Not sure what your point with showing a price chart was, but it means very little. Lower price = lower barrier to entry. You believing that if something doesn't rise in value over time, it's worthless or useless, is you being mad about the fact you think you or other people have taken "losses" when the fact is, no one's lost anything and those who bought it bought it with purpose and saw it's value and any given crypto at any given price means nothing at all when they are holding whatever it is and not selling it anyway. No one who is truly invested in an idea, is even looking to cash out, they are holding onto their stake whether it's worth $1 or $1,000 each. You not seeing the benefit of the long term isn't my issue. lol. Show me a single crypto right now who's charts don't end up looking like that in a week or a year and then bounce back tremendously and then get back to me.
According to your logic, BTC and ALL crypto are worthless wastes of time. Here's a chart for you, since you think charts matter and all that.
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[IMAGE: https://images.hive.blog/DQmRz13RaJJ5Tz5j52eMHtvxkKA2gRzCMkXUGFgN88zFoxG/image.png]
^ Oh look! Another chart! :)
[IMAGE: https://images.hive.blog/DQmNUfVnakcQBajHArBAJ1AEELUmkXvPzFq7Z1ccorXvyrf/image.png]
^ Uh oh! Looks like ETH is useless and worthless too! Wow! This logic is great!
[IMAGE: https://images.hive.blog/DQmT6jLTAb4H1jNuHz8VhU9svDdETjt8VW78DmpQp14vkPb/image.png]
^ I like that crappy little timeframe you used to make LEO look even worse than it is, but hey, any crypto can be put to "1 week" or "1 month" or "ytd" settings and you can make it look absolutely dog shit horrible. Charts are for stupid people to preach by, and smart people to guide themselves with.
Here, I did what you did with LEO, with Hive. In 3 months time and really less, it's dropped from over $1.20, to less than $0.40 and really that's being conservative as the bottom of the past 3 months is really something like $0.31 or so, meaning even further "losses" by your logic. At this point you shouldn't even be using Hive, because it's dropped so much now it must be worthless!
[IMAGE: https://images.hive.blog/DQmfFQWACgm8edFby4R6RhKJgqnuRS9LV9391VpEzhWUnTG/image.png]
^ It's pretty funny... because speaking of charts, it seems that most have the exact same pattern we're seeing with LEO before they really pop off after mass adoption. Huh, wonder how that's so curiously identical to the pattern of ETH? :) I'd suggest you stop trying to spread fear simply because you don't understand what you're talking about. It makes you look ignorant.
I pray that you and that other guy below don't have actual people trusting you with investments lol. You'll lose their entire bankrolls and blame the Crypto market and it's volatility. SMH. This has nothing to do with "image" it has to do with understanding the nature of financial beasts and the value of application in crypto and what has value and what does not. LEO has value and even if it saw prices of $0.0001 a piece, it still has application and purpose and the value lies there.
Hmm, noticing any trends in all of crypto? Oh yea, that they all have depreciated from higher highs than before. They all typically bounce back to higher highs than before and generally even if not, they have periods when they're spiking that they are still, yes, profitable even despite being majorly down. It all depends on when you get in. Compared to long ago, LEO is cheap now, yes. If you had LEO all that time though, you should've been earning unless you aren't bright and just let it sit. It's not a HODL currency, it's a functional token. It has value tagged to it inherently. It was meant to be used and for more to be produced. It may have been more expensive to buy LEO long ago, but you got more of the total overall stake when you did, now the user pool is majorly diluted, yes, but if you got in early you should have been able to make plenty over time having a larger stake than you would buying the same amount now. You only look to the short term and that's why you don't care to do research or look at things from different angles. You open up your little charts day to day and if you see trends you don't like, something is a "failure" and you write it off. It's why you haven't truly reached peak earning potential yet in your life, it's a wall, it's holding you back to think about things purely fiscally and measuring their value as their success or failure. These aren't stocks, these aren't investments in companies, these are investments in currencies and in ourselves. It's not business as usual, it's business abnormal and you can't use a digital scale to figure out the length of something. You need to use your ruler, you're using the wrong tool metaphorically.
LEO is doing no worse than all of crypto over time. Difference is, we haven't seen major spikes in it that often and in the scale of comparison to other assets it is still very young. It still has purpose, moreso than BTC even does. BTC is literally simply a currency. No smart contracts, no social media chained to it, nothing. Simply a currency, a ledger, and code to run it without a central institution. Even a token on a chain that's on a chain, is far more useful than simply a currency on a chain. All you look at crypto like is dollar signs and you're not even looking at it properly, but rather that if something is down over time, it's worthless or a "depreciating asset" and shouldn't be fucked with. Makes zero sense to live life thinking that way, but I suppose to each their own.
Watch out for the human traffickers at hivefest. You wont know it until its too late. STAY AWAY! Beware, traffickers can be women or men! They will act nice until they dont. There is human trafficking going on around this type of crypto. I have witnessed it. They literally have attempted my murder and are trying to kill me with V2K and RNM. Five years this has been happening to me, it started here, around people that are still here. Homeland security has done nothing at all, they are not here to protect us. Dont we pay them to stop shit like this? The NSA, CIA, FBI, Police and our Government has done nothing. Just like they did with the Havana Syndrome, nothing. Patriot Act my ass. The American government is completely incompetent. The NSA should be taken over by the military and contained Immediately for investigation. I bet we can get to the sources of V2K and RNM then. https://ecency.com/fyrstikken/@fairandbalanced/i-am-the-only-motherfucker-on-the-internet-pointing-to-a-direct-source-for-voice-to-skull-electronic-terrorism ..... https://ecency.com/gangstalking/@acousticpulses/electronic-terrorism-and-gaslighting--if-you-downvote-this-post-you-are-part-of-the-problem if you run into one of them you may want to immediately shoot them in the face. 187, annihilate, asphyxiate, assassinate, behead, bleed, bludgeon, boil, bomb, bone, burn, bury, butcher, cap, casket, choke, chop, club, crucify, crush, curb, decapitate, decimate, deflesh, demolish, destroy, devein, disembowel, dismember, drown, electrocute, eliminate, end, euthanize, eviscerate, execute, explode, exterminate, extinguish, finish, fry, grind, guillotine, gut, hack, hang, hit, ice, implode, incinerate, kill, liquidate, lynch, massacre, maul, microwave, mutilate, neutralize, obliterate, off, pop, poison, punnish, quarter, ruin, shank, shock, shoot, shred, skin, slay, slaughter, smoke, smother, snipe, snuff, squish, stab, strangle, stone, suffocate, suicide, SWAT, swing, terminate, torture, terrorize, whack, waste, wreck. You better fucking kill me.
Intro
Thanks for this post, as the content and the comments are informative about the failures and instructive about a way forward.
Perhpas you struck a nerve
The 133 comments would suggest to me that you struck a nerve, and after reading them, it is a diverse bunch of viewpoints.
The comments and my business
Personally, I read the posts and comments because I have run a business on Hive for over a year, and I thought a token would help the business with publicity and possibly credibility. I thought those were not good reasons to have a token, and that credibility would come from running the business correctly, while publicity would come from Ads and word of mouth recommnedations.
My self reflection
I now reflect on some other investment and dividend token, and feel they have done things differently, and better, with a token.
I feel that way because with more education and research I could have used the same energy I used to build the business, consurrently to build the token. I think the token adds something to this niche, security. I think, for example; not exclusively of course, there are other tokens, but the Bro token gives people security that my business doesn't. If you buy the BRO token you are still relying on the creators of BRO token to send you your dividend, and you are still relying on their honestly, and credibility. But if it doesn't work out, you sell the token. I think with my program, if it doesn't work out you have nothing.
I cold be wrong, and there most likely be other reasons less complex or more complex, but I am trying to step outside my own bias towards myself and my program, and see what differences exist.
I think the simplicity and lack of distribution issues and tokenomics issues for such dividend tokens are nice also, because I and possibly the fact that you can simply sell your BRO token on Hive Engine, and the founders can simply buy back your Token when you want to leave. Thus perhaps your investment has liquidity in way that my refunds don't.
Although I thought the simplicity of my refund was easy, you invest Leo and your Leo is refunded. But perception is key and point of view limits me there.
Then again with better marketing perhaps a business would overcome these difference.
But I think forming a token would perhaps give me another advantage, it would be a start to a community identity, and I think that Community idea is forming in my mind now, as a community bnigger then my business, but pperhaps a community of people building businesses on hive, and a place where they could exchange ideas about what works for businesses, and potentially business tokenomics.
A new idea, perhaps a new community
There are many singular communities of worth while businesses and tokens on Hive, but I know of no community that focuses on bringing them together in one place, where they can all be viewed, compared and perhaps they can grow/evolve/merge... the possibilities are endless.
I am an idea person...
You post has made me think, and develop an idea for something new, which could be bigger and better, potentially then what I have created before; multiple sinular programs, based on unique ideas, which I thought were profitable. I think a community where those ideas are shared and put under the microscope such as it could be said, would be more unique and more helpful towards the longterm goal of utilizing our collective energies better to move forward.
And now the hard part...
X.... execution
@shortsegments
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
