> I came to the conclusion that the purpose of art is beauty.

Very strong assertion here and I quite agree with you. Wonder why people dole out million of dollars to purchase art pieces? Beauty!.

> Someone could look at a pile of trash and find "beauty" in it...some would say.

> I disagree with this idea.

This brings us to the point that what we consider as beauty is subjective. I might praise a picture for being beautiful, but it might not be beautiful to another person.

Now this next part is the part that draws my curiosity.

>making architecture one of the most effective method of evangelization.

And it's been researched on right?

I wanted to outrightly say this is not true, but you know what? I'm gonna read and through the research since it's a little bit psychological and then I'll know how to accept this opinion.

Off to read more on it..

And oh!! Thanks for sharing this. We keep learning daily

>This brings us to the point that what we consider as beauty is subjective

and therefore that ugliness is also subjective. This idea is not so far from ideas that morality is also subjective and that genocide can be good and that charity can be bad depending on "our opinions". Very dangerous stuff.

Not all beauty are beautiful. Ashes can also be turn into beauty. The power of beholder define what can be characterize as beautiful...
>A mad man will call gold pebbles but a sane man knoweth it worth

There was a time that we built things that took many generations to complete, just because we appreciated back then how important beauty and symbolism is.

Beauty gives meaning and purpose to life.

I like the flower in that video , it minister to my spirit in an unusual way that i cannot explain.

The purpose of art is beauty. God is beauty. Whao, I love these very much. I can imagine, coming back from Italy, being very sensitive about art. For sure. It just makes you complete. I see you like christian architecture (who said they didnt matter?) of course they do matter.

Art doesnt just imitate life, IMO, the best life is art. the best art is life.

This very beautiful piece of art is my friend. and continue to share this very beautiful artwork my friend @cryptoctopus

wow very nice post

There is this bliss connected to ark work and there is feeling unexplainable when you listen to songs that connects with your soul. If only we open our eyes and pay attention to the beautiful things that God have kept in place for us

Interesting thoughts! It's funny because when I visited Montreal a couple years ago I remember thinking that there was some really cool architecture and I was really impressed by a lot of the buildings! I guess in comparison to Rome though it's less impressive :) Definitely interesting to consider the role that beautiful architecture plays in one's perception of Christianity, or any other religion.

Awwww its an amazing art of a building.I hope you had a great time in Italy.Seeing it in your pictures i also wished to visit Italy :)
Art is the gift of GOD

excellent post

Beauty is just for one second

At first you may think that Beauty is important,but when you see the actual side of a person then you realise that actually what matters is the behaviour and not the beauty .

I have suffered a lot Because I was with a beautiful girl for 2 years and I really thought her to be a good person who will stand by my side for all good and bad times . But reality showed something else .

That made me realise that Beauty is not important because a good person can always be made beautiful but a beautiful person may not always be good.

In short “Good people are always beautiful but beautiful people are not always good”.

The ultimate form of beauty reflects the Good and the True.

Truly the beauty can easily steal the heart of a youth, I agree God is the reflection of goodness, truth, humanity, one who seeks these things seeks God, The beauty of architecture of church can influence certain people and they can convert there religion, but only a few, mostly those who don't believe in their own religion and are attracted towards beauty.

I visited Milan last week. There were a lot of historical places and all of them were so fascinating as you shared. Thanks for the impressive post.

The video looks like very interesting and including valuable information. I will watch it as soon as possible. I just wanted share with you this photo taken in Duomo.

[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmXKTC4bemL8v43J84svPgccbJDUuvYf16CjETW5NDRHxw/IMG_6426.JPG]

Really wonderful video my dear friend but your video is very long and i watch your video just few minuetes.Awesome video sir and download it
[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmbyQPAi8BfmgEVJ4G1Qx33A8Cmv5mV3Zquvz5xduzYwst/Screenshot_20180305-210458.png]

I have mentioned this in a comment before, not sure if it was on your post, but one of the reasons that religious buildings, especially roman buildings, are built with such a high ceiling, is because it makes you feel like there is something bigger out there. Think of looking at a massive mountain or a waterfall. You get a reassuring feeling that there is something bigger out there than you. I still believe that there is also a special "feeling" you get in addition to this, but this contributes.

English is not enough to comment on this issue.
but you drew attention to the perfect spot. I agree to statistics mentioned in the article.
extremely accurate.
Thank you for this beautiful post.

Every person should have sense of beauty in it self. Beauty is in the sky, garden, sunny day... We should enjoy in small things and appreciate them, the life is going to pass by, so enjoy every day like it is your last.

>>It is a chant we keep on repeating as if that if we repeat it again and again, it will make it more true.

I love the way you describe church as a beauty, I would also add two other words Love & Faith. I’m watching your video just now.

For me, i still think beauty is in the eye of the beholder because what could be beautiful to you, may be ugly to another!

While I agree with most of the things you said in the post--namely that the purpose of art is beauty. God is beauty. Christian architecture rocks--I cant bring myself to agree to your last point.

In my opinion, beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. And nothing is objectively ugly. For instance that Houston picture is beautiful to me. I'm an African, I've seen and lived in some of the worst slums in the world. So it isnt farfetched that that pic of Houston suburb can be beautiful to me.

I guess its a question of subjectivity vs objectivity. For instance do my taste matter? Or should a universal taste be put into the foremost? IMO theres no "universal taste".

Bloom said that the greatest tool of a critic is not even objectivity, but the deepest sort of subjevtivity. I believe him.

P.S I'm defintely not talking about relativity/comparison in this case. I mean, when it comes to relativity, its a whole different ballgame.

Good job

Thanks for this post. I especially appreciate that you addressed the current cultural (shrill) insistence that beauty is entirely in the eye of the beholder. The subjectivity of beauty only goes so far, and our failure to acknowledge the universal nature of beauty (and its importance in feeding our souls) is a way of denying reality. Looking forward to watching the entire Scruton video. Also, since people read words so literally these days, "beauty" might need to be clarified as the manifestation of the good, not a literal reference to whether a person, for instance, is beautiful.

Tabernac! In Quebec a good place to find beauty is Le Grand Prix ;)

>"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Keats

Very nice post bro

Speaking of beauty, everyone is eager to see a beauty in life that he lives. Because according to to create a beauty it is very difficult. Not everyone who lives in this world has an artistic soul of beauty. Because the soul of art is very difficult to find, only the lucky ones who have the soul of that art. It seems those people are god's choice, so they have an edge about art. Therefore I am very salute with people who have the soul of art, because the soul of the art, has a very expensive price. Thanks for sharing

I thnk Beauty shouldn't be about changing yourself to achieve an ideal or be more socially acceptable. Real beauty, the interesting, truly pleasing kind,is about being comfortable in your own skin...

Yes, I agree that we have forgot our culture in an attempt to modernise ourselves.
Not everything that is new is beautiful , there's a certain charm to our old and ancient architecture. Not everything can be replaced

Italy is a country full of ancient architecture and statues reflecting gods and myths abd history so its no wonder you feel lack of architecture back in montreal . The beauty outside reflects a beauty inside. People are able to work better and more creatively in beautiful refreshing places that are a dessert for our mind and soul, ugly and dirty place or places with no beauty causes irration as i teen for me,so about the suicide,yes our environment and its beauty affects us. I totally agree with you that it’s wrong to say that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” cause not every thing can be found beautiful just thinking like that. You sound like a very religious person which is a good quality and your search for beauty in everywhereand wanting it to be in the part you live and churches you have there is a sign that you are awake for the community too.all should think like this and create a world a beautiful place combining with nature. Thanks for posting @cryptoctopus

This great art...

The right concept can be relative to one person, something that is right for one may be something wrong for another. According to the convention, it is wrong to pretend to lie by the simplest one; the other may find it appropriate to lie in some cases "to upset people." But "real" is net, does not show relativity; it is not open to the interpretation of the persons according to their own.

Beauty is a concept related to emotions with fine arts. A person looks at the picture, it is beautiful, but it can not say it is good. According to Kant, both are separate things. While beauty is about emotional things, good is a concept that is comprehended with reason. There is art in the place where your beauty is. Beauty indicates high aesthetic value. In simple terms: it is an admirable, acclaimed attribute. It has a sensory form. It is not based on thought, but on dilution and imagination. We prefer the beautiful one for sensory impression and cruising, not for a job.

Perhaps for "fact" we can say "the adjective used to indicate that something exists in the outside world". In this respect, it can be called "solar reality". Reality is an existing condition. The truth does not change while the true person can change to the person. It is the "true" object; "Right" is often the case. "Right" is the way in which the truth is viewed and interpreted by the person.

The beauty will save the world.

In my opinion we can't define beauty, cause everybody can be with you or not. For me I can just say everybody is beautiful until he can show he is a ugly person. I hope you can understand me what I want to say ^^' If not than I will try to find other words.

These beliefs are being developed by thinkers who are looking for what is truth by reason other than scholastic thoughts, and various theories are developed by the influence of knowledge of the developments in technology and the increase of our knowledge about the universe, according to Quantum physics. it is an energy ocean. "Accordingly, everything in this ocean is in interaction with each other. Everything is both alone and with everything, like a single body. The intensity of the interaction is the distance and the closeness. Consciousness matters, and matter affects knowingly. If we say matter, "concentrated energy" is nothing more than Einstein's expression. Everything in this energy world is eternal and eternal. Continuous infinite variety, transforming into infinite forms, eternal death chasing eternal resurrections. Energy is neither increasing nor decreasing, constantly changing and transforming, if we call death, change from one existence to another.

>No wonder suicide rates among youths aged 15-24 have tripled in the past half-century.

Owk this is entirely new to me. Like seriously? Does the church building really convert people . Wow!

I love all you said about beauty and infacylt you gave me a different perspective about beauty.

It is true that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but like you said, something's are outrighlty beautiful and something are outrighlty ugly. We have things that everyone would look at and say it's beautiful and same goes to being ugly but I think this scenarios are seen in just rare occassions .

Beauty and art has been destroyed in our century and it's something one really needs to be wary about and Roger Scruton made some valid points about this in his video.

There is a kind of peace you get from VIEWING something or someone that is beautiful. It most cases a person is left speechless or even moved to tears.

I have never been to Paris but I love the beach so I browse images if beaches in the Caribbean Islands and I feel a lump in my throat and almost moved to tears. The water so blue and the coral reefs so visible. It is truly a sight to behold.

I tell myself, one day I shall experience it.

I agree with the statement you made ....that beautiful things always stay beautiful and ugly things always remains so....perspective changes person go person ....but the beauty remains for all the same to every individual....Although the beauty may change with the time say after a century ... It is the beauty of nature which makes people believe in God (sometimes called nature)

Good Lord Boyet, my beauty, though but mean,
Needs not the painted flourish of your praise:
Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye,
Not utter'd by base sale of chapmen's tongues

Beauty is one of those ideas that over the past 100 years or so has been slowly downgraded when it comes to considering the value of art. It’s not so long ago that people would have named it as one of the qualities that defined art. Many still do. But what they mean by beauty has become a shadow of its former self.
Art is a means to state an opinion or a feeling, or else to create a different view of the world, whether it be inspired by the work of other people or something invented that’s entirely new. Beauty is whatever aspect of that or anything else that makes an individual feel positive or grateful. Beauty alone is not art, but art can be made of, about or for beautiful things. Beauty can be found in a snowy mountain scene: art is the photograph of it shown to family, the oil interpretation of it hung in a gallery, or the music score recreating the scene in crotchets and quavers.

People not only lost faith they ideals, they also lost faith in the state, nation, and society.
The cultural "beauty" is losing attention in a world surrounded by artificial distractions.

> therefore all beauty is subjective.

I'd disagree, to this and your trash point. I think God is within each of us and in everything, but only those who have the eyes to see will witness it. That's what the quote "Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder" means to me. Once we reach a certain level of consciousness, or rather return to our natural consciousness, we can see the God/beauty within everything, including Taco Bell. It doesn't mean that those things have a natural beauty though, since they have been created by people while at lower levels of consciousness.

Some of the art and architecture of those great cathedrals was obviously done by someone quite blessed with vision and purpose. I'd say their consciousness was one with God or near that.

These are personal views of course, the way I have seen and interpreted things, hopefully they are somewhat clear.

I think we are all beautiful within, we are made in the image of God, yet there are some very "ugly" people who have deluded themselves and covered this truth up.

I would like to say a thing or two about the issue of the church architecture. Most churches spend fortunes constructing the church bulding. One church in Africa spent over $300 000 constructing the church building. It shows the level of priority christians place on their place of worship. Many people condemned this with the basis that a reasonabke percentage of the members of that church are living below the poverty level but as you said, the grandiose of the church building contributes significantly to people being converted.^

I bought Roger Scruton's book after watching that video. It all comes down to the question of objectivity vs subjectivity. Is Good and Evil objective or subjective? Is Beauty objective or subjective? What's interesting is that some experiences shake our soul, in ways we can't really comprehend. Some music, some landscapes, some paintings, etc. Maybe there's an objectivity we can't yet grasp. It's superior to us, it's by design, that kind of design science couldn't yet describe (and even if it could describe, will never explain)

Beauty(aesthetic), Truth(Logic) and the Good(Morality/Ethics) have been in a fight about their objective nature. Empirically, I think it is clear that civilizations that goe down the path of relativity end up crumbling and imploding. When we call the ugly beautiful and when Evil becomes signs of virtues...we are in deep trouble.

We know that the Holocaust was so horrendous that no sane person would say that it was not objectively evil (meaning independent from people's opinions). As soon as we unknowledge that, we cannot escape it's logical opposite. If there is something ultimately evil, there must be an ultimate good.

Beauty is harder to defend when it comes to it's objectivity yet I think that we experience in our soul the difference between genuine beauty and ugliness. Which is why people still flock in masses to great paintings and architecture or towards Hawaii...and not towards the local dumpster.

I completely agree with you, my friend, lately, let me not be a tolerant person, our society increasingly lose the real notion of beauty and the general understanding of the universe. You correctly noticed that it's not right to seek beauty in a pile of garbage, I will say even more, it is counter-indicative from the point of view of correct thinking about life values ​​and customs. Only when we seek beauty in something great and sublime, we can find beauty within ourselves and the church with its centuries-old foundations and covenants can replace all false understandings of beauty! Thank you @cryptoctopus

الله يحفظك

Thank you, God keeps us all!

This is the real truth, you'll always find few youths in churches with no value for beauty, but if you go to churches that have taken interest and time in the beauty of arts, there you'll find more youths..... This is the very reason most youths are out of churches searching for what their soul longs for, the beauty and the beautifier, what is not beautiful may be beautiful to some one, sometimes beauty lies in the value of an art, once valuable it becomes beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

What a thoughtful and very interesting peice written by @crtptoctopus .

Even if i know !any would wanna agree or ague that beauty should not ne what nost people should focus on, but rather inner beautu from that lady.

what woow me was this line downwards from here

" Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder"
It is a chant we keep on repeating as if that if we repeat it again and again, it will make it more true. The idea behind this is that since different people have different taste, therefore all beauty is subjective."

For i definately would show this piece of work to the love of me life.

Thanks once more @cryptoctopus as i look forward to more of ur interesting post

A Thing Of Beauty (Endymion)
A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its lovliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.
Therefore, on every morrow, are we wreathing
A flowery band to bind us to the earth,
Spite of despondence, of the inhuman dearth
Of noble natures, of the gloomy days,
Of all the unhealthy and o'er-darkn'd ways
Made for our searching: yes, in spite of all,
Some shape of beauty moves away the pall
From our dark spirits. Such the sun, the moon,
Trees old and young, sprouting a shady boon
For simple sheep; and such are daffodils
With the green world they live in; and clear rills
That for themselves a cooling covert make
'Gainst the hot season; the mid-forest brake,
Rich with a sprinkling of fair musk-rose blooms:
And such too is the grandeur of the dooms
We have imagined for the mighty dead;
An endless fountain of immortal drink,
Pouring unto us from the heaven's brink.

by John Keats
Source https://m.poemhunter.com/poem/a-thing-of-beauty-endymion/

I totally concur with you, old buddy, recently, let me not be a tolerant individual, our general public progressively lose the genuine thought of magnificence and the general comprehension of the universe. You accurately saw that it's wrong to look for excellence in a heap of waste, I will state considerably more, it is counter-characteristic from the perspective of right reasoning about existence esteems ​​and traditions. Just when we look for excellence in something incredible and radiant.

I wish people still built castles. It's amazing what the masons did back in old times though with the equipment they had. I wonder how many died building those huge churches. Hopefully very few died. They are pretty amazing works of art though. I think the craziest job would have been the ceiling painters. lol

Good👏👏👏👏👏

This is so nice am happy to have got a chance to view your post i have learnt alot out of it

I have adored stained glass windows since I was a very young child. They always spoke to my soul. That was my first sense of 'knowing' God. I had the great fortune of living in Europe for two years when I was a young woman. I experienced that same sense of 'knowing' God not only in the great cathedrals but also in the beauty of the architecture of so many of Europe's great buildings, many centuries old. Now, I have the great fortune of living on the plains at the foot of the great Rocky Mountains. I feel that same sense of knowing God every time I look out my kitchen window at the beautiful snow dusted mountain known as Pike's Peak. It speaks to my soul...and I am grateful.

I agree with you about beauty. I latched onto the fact you mentioned music as something touching the soul.

As it pertains to the kids today, the music is awful. Hip hop and some of the other genres are absolute death to the soul. Listening to the lyrics is bad enough...even without focusing upon them, they penetrate the psyche.

Compare that to classical music....how uplifting that music is. A great classical piece will touch your soul at the deepest level. Too bad the kids do not see that.

I love the picture of Houston...how does one see beauty in a bunch of signs that are advertising fast food places. Actually, it is rather ugly and symbolic of the corporatism that we are present locked in.

The almighty dollar (or whatever currency) is the most important thing today...a god if you will....peoples higher power.

Everything else seems secondary.

nice post
good job
i live your post
[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmYSVCnYP59n8UdMHRLqMrx6BRogpBfuSaPUusxHJ54CV4/DQmbbPuXJ4BGVAMALVz4XQ3a2UZmb22fHLUC5FFAQEGn3HA_1680x8400.jpeg]

Great story and photos

Well yes buddy after all beauty is in our eye !

Like you said we do all have different taste and opinions that's what makes us human and beautiful !

We do should respect others and their choices as well !

Yes, in our time, beauty has been abandoned in favor of functionality.

The land is expensive, it is necessary to build high-rise buildings, and cheaper - from glass and concrete.

But people need beauty not less than convenience.

I came to the conclusion that the purpose of art is beauty. Finally @crptoctopus has come to a conclusion. incredible, It is a very interesting series of sentences from @criptoctopus's experience that is shared with us. Thank you for sharing our knowledge with us

This is so interesting and though provoking. Thanks for sharing!

Interesting thoughts man. I'd have to say overall I agree with you, but perhaps not fully. I think that subjectivity is the beauty and function of art, but I'm not certain that there is an absolute objectivity to art. You have some interesting thoughts on the relation of absolutism, and how they can relate to both art and ethics/morals. I haven't done much thinking about that relationship, so I'll have to take some time on it.

Anyways, I'm not sure if I agree on the 'eye of the beholder' part. I believe it plays a huge part at times. For instance, there are some songs that can bring me close to tears, and every time I listen to them I get transported by their beauty and I'm in a different world for a bit...but show those songs to say.. My wife or something, and it doesn't mean much to her. The experiences and personality traits that shape us to who we are today, influence how we see the world in unimaginable and undefinable ways.

While some things are more universally accepted as beautiful art, I'm not sure if it's fair to draw a line and tell someone that something they think is beautiful isn't, just because other people don't agree with them. And I think that's part of the beauty of art.. It's in a league of its own.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Objective art, I agree is not possible because there is an infinite number variables. Mostly my point is about the purpose of art being beauty and that beauty itself has something that stirs the soul upward rather than downward. For beauty to have an objective quality, there must be a silver lining between what constitutes beauty across time, space and even culture. This is why I compare Paris or Rome to a main street in a suburb of Houston...or why Chinese people play the 9th symphony of Beethoven.

I believe that people are naturally attracted by beauty(ei: a beach in Hawaii) and repelled by ugliness(ei: the local dumpster). The ultimate form of beauty, according to Christian Theology, is what reflect the Good and the True...which is why I think why some piece of art have transcended taste and culture through the centuries...by religious and unreligious people.

We will play John's Passion in 200 years...but we surely won't play something like "My Hump" from the Black Eye Peas.

Sorry for the late reply.

OK, I can agree more with what you said here, when you say that the purpose of art is to essentially be beautiful, even though that can take many forms. And I think I agree people are naturally more attracted to beautiful landscapes than dirty streets (I know I am, ha), but I'm a little hesitant still to say that certain things are really truly objectively beautiful.

I agree that the ultimate form of beauty is what reflects what is true and good. But not certain if you can boil it all down objectively.

I think some art is higher quality and much more accessible beautiful than other art, which is why they are "timeless". But I'm not entirely certain that someone from a vastly different culture would appreciate Beethoven, or a painting from the Renaissance period, etc.

But then again, gorgeous sunsets are beautiful, and who doesn't like them? I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm on the fence. I see where you're coming from, but personally I'm not ready to say that beauty is objective. I think.

Really good thoughts dude. I definitely agree that the subjective nature of art makes it difficult (and potentially pointless) for me to tell someone else what they should think is beautiful.

Great post. Did you know that everything we find beautiful it’s because of its mathematical proportions which are based of the Golden Section? Master artist would use it to plan out their compositions and it is also found all over nature.

This very beautiful piece of art is my friend.............and nice video[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmZ7vaczVzkV3ya3FCtwpURAX4fJCmTBxbpk9G4c5u9BtN/download.png]

Beauty is not on looks but beauty is on the heart! @cryptoctopus a beautiful heart alwys see good in everything . just for referece..men in india alwys looks for beautiful women as their partner hardly any of them look for the quality. Quality alwys matter not the look.

I really appreciate this post so much! I live in former Estern Germany since two years, in a city called Rostock. It once was a fisher town with old and beautiful hanseatic architecture. The center of the city and the area along the coast still has this amazing and beautiful architecture which makes you awe and get lost in the beauty of it. You really feel the passion of the architects, the love they had for their city and how important it was to people back then to create an environment they love to live in and which honors the country and churches which honor god.

On the other hand there are the more modern parts of the city, build in GDR times, when the Berlin wall was still there, dividing the country. The architecture looks so depressing, cold and dead. No live in it. No trace of art. Just some cubic, dark concrete boxes. Like breeders or something like that. In these areas, people seem so depressed. You can also see a lot of people drinking alcohol, feeling lost and looking broken. There is no beauty around.
Here are some pictures (from the internet as I don't have good examples right now on my smartphone) to show you the difference of the old and "new" architecture:
https://www.urlaubsguru.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/rostock-germany-istock_000065174161_large-2.jpg
https://img.nnn.de/img/rostock/crop13662636/3954668376-cv16_9-h495/23-79742710-23-79742711-1462901295.jpg

The city quarters with the ugliest architectures are the ones with the most problems. Violence, addiction, people with no jobs and hope.
To me this is no coincidence.

Living in a sad, dark and hopeless looking environment won't make you happy and motivated, I think.

I visited a special school where art was one of my main subjects as I am a huge art and music lover. And it really hurts in my heart to see how modern society ruins the beauty our ancestors created and start creating loveless cities. How should we become a high and cultivated, happy, beautiful society when even our cities and the homes we live in look hopeless and absolutely uncreative?

What would god say to that? That is actually a question I ask myself a lot. He creates such stunning and wonderful nature, full of miracles, pure beauty and colors. He gave us creativity and the power to create beautiful things. And we abuse this gift and refuse to do so. We only build purposive, uncreative industrial areas and cities. No beauty anmore. No divine architecture and art.
Would god like to spend his holiday in our Western culture cities or would he rather visit the ones with true culture and breathtaking architecture?

To be honest, this is one of the main reasons I want to travel: I want to discover beauty around the world again. I want to feel amazed again.

Just needed to be said :)
Thanks for reading! :)

And thank you to cryptoctopus for your outcry and inspiration to ask ourselves: What are we doing to our cities and environment? Why are we building a concrete hell instead of an architectural paradise?

Best wishes, Linda

I think beauty is an important thing but the most crucial point in this conversation is the "definition of the beauty" . If something has plenty of definitions It has also no definition and if it is the "beauty" definition then everything changes more than we think: The "beauty definition" changes instantaneously by our feelings,thoughts or memories and also by time.So you can hate or dislike something you liked before....And returning to the subject of writing, it is also relevent to the esthetics and aesthetic anxiety of the century of the structure was made...Then we can think the "beauty" like fashion or like a pop song...

The difference between art and beauty is that art is about who has produced it, whereas beauty depends on who’s looking..
what i found beautiful is not beautiful for others,but is that really beautiful ?no !someimes that is my choice
i think what is beautiful is beautiful for all

>In 200 years, like I said in the comment, we will still be playing the 9th symphony of Beethoven and not "My Hump" by the Black Eye Peas.

Nailed it.

I hope also that we can revert to beauty once again.

I'm coming from an area where the town centers used to look like this (this one is still looking like this) and where communism tried to destroy and put concrete flats instead. All grey, same shape.

[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmZLHuQpgSpS6f19GzL4MJEciA1GCPMBGv1dvsqYYqdyco/20171228_102528.jpg]

Building such masterpieces was forbidden. If I recall everything was forbidden. Even religion, as Christmas was replaced by winter celebration and Santa Claus with Ol'Frost.
In the end changing everything to monotone ugliness changed the thinking and the motivation of the people. Having everything grey around stomps your will for a change.

Every American and Canadian should visit Europe to understand what history is. Btw, great post.

Beauty can have a lot of meaning to someone and it can vary from one person to another depending on how he saw it while he's growing up. The "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing is one of my usual lines whenever someone "not so beautiful physically" asks me if she's beautiful or not. Well, I guess I really wouldn't know and only time can tell when I will realize the true meaning of that or why it's even important. I just know it is because that's what I've been taught. I have to say, the last video is interesting :)

Great post. Beauty stays forever. For me, most profound beauty is in music or nature. Something where you can connect whit yourself. That "Houston" picture is not beautiful at all. My opinion is that people lost faith in beauty, because they lost faith in themselves and who they authentically are.

@cryptoctopus,
I didn't watch the end video, but at one point I am disagree with you. Beauty and art, for me it's subjective! Trash can be a beautiful thing! Someone can say it's ugly, but as I said it has it's own beauty and that's why I said it's subjective!
Anyway Church has it's own art, once I told you I am not a Christian, but I like to visit Church in my area! Because, I like the architectural design of it and it has it's own beauty!
Whatever my eye capture, it gives positive or negative pulses to my brain and the brain takes those signals as Beauty or Ugly! For me everything has it's own art, as Plato said Beauty is a sign of another and higher order!

Cheers~

“Trash can be a beautiful thing”, would love to hear your deeper thoughts on this because it makes 0 sense in my head. Beauty affects people clearly on a deeper level in how people live their life. When you start to hear "trash can be a beautiful thing" that’s usually the downfall of a society in moral standards. What trash are we talking about here? Very curious.

It's interesting that you should mention Beethoven's "9th symphony" as more objectively beautiful than "My Hump". I've been listening to the 9th symphony lately and it's one of those symphonies I keep coming back to, even though it's one of Beethoven's symphonies which I find it most difficult to remember. I'm not sure what makes music like this last longer than modern music. A lot of music these days just sounds mass produced, but then again, I can imagine that I would think that about Beethoven if I lived back then as well;)

Also, your final sentence had me thinking.I hope that our culture will turn this around and make Beauty as important as the pursuit of the Good and the True.The thing is, I feel that the truth isn't being pursued much in these times. It seems more like the whole world is sold on commercialized views, and as long as people are not being told to appreciate beauty, it's only natural that beauty remains unprioritized.

Very good that you are bringing this up. Beauty is extremely important. I see the current trends how west Europe has completely given up on Beauty and it will be that place downfall. So much degeneracy and satanic things that goes as “Art” and “Beauty”. It’s dangerous and toxic. Nothing compares to Italy when it comes to deep beauty that exist there both in buildings, landscapes and beautiful people in heart.

I agree with this

> objective beauty is found in architecture, paintings and music that is not only appreciated today in a certain time in a certain place by someone...but across diverse people and across time

But putting the lack of proper art as a possible cause of increase in suicides is an extremely long shot in my opinion.

We can find good art if we want too, in fact, I believe it is easier than ever to find good art today thanks to the internet.

Comparing Montreal with Rome is a little unfair haha, Rome is an historic place with incredible history, while Montreal is a normal modern city, that I am sure is not ugly at all and probably people in Montreal have better lives than people in Rome, but that when it comes to competing with Rome and with its classical looks, well there is no competition at all.

>In the last century we gave up on the idea of beauty in art, beauty in our neighborhood and our churches

I am not sure if I agree with this.

For example, with churches, perhaps the lack of beauty in the designs is because the lack of funds.

And about neighborhoods I think that it also depends. There is ugly ones and pretty ones after all.

I don't think it's such a long shot. We are incredibly conditioned by out environments, and if everything around is essentially preaching ugliness, meaninglessness, and nihilism, that will definitely start to affect the psyche.

Beauty does matter but in this generation, we consider efficiency more now. It doesn't mean beauty isn't considered too but what is beauty if it will not last.

its a familiar territory just d same way african gothic paintings were destroyed by the explorers way back then

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Interesting post about beauty and art ... but you know that I spent much of the reading detailing the similarities that the interior of the cathedral with the interior of the Basilica of Our Lady of Chiquinquira

Between tastes and colors I remain with the kindness that the construction of these architectural wonders left us. Also in these places the mystique is different, a good friend said that he enjoyed the beauty and peace of sitting on the benches of the basilica, it served him sometimes to find existential answers or simply calm his thoughts.[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmbqkaGib4tDK4mWTtDrtzc1A5ic5nA27rs1EFKCiHgLPe/vista-1.jpg]

Dear heavens. I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am to see this. I am a HUGE Roger Scruton fan, and actually am back and forth with him a little in letters/emails since 2011, recently sending him my CD, which I am happy to say he enjoyed. He was incredibly formative to me and to how I have approached my art--which has cost me severely. We aren't, generally speaking, in a listening world, so I've fought off temptations for years to do something that would be more received and just finally pay the bills, especially when I was working with a record label I eventually chose to leave. Honestly, I don't have regrets, but it has been hard.

Seriously. My heart is bursting to see this on Steemit. It's my whole raison d'etre, the whole purpose behind why I've been willing to fight for so long as an artist (musician and writer).

Our world is starved for beauty. I'm in Saskatoon - and so much of it in unnecessarily ugly. It's heartbreaking; it literally, viscerally, physically hurts me to be here for the reason, although of course with open eyes you can always find beauty. I lived in Europe for 3 years, just outside of Vienna, and it changed things for me permanently. But now life is painful in contrast, and I keep trying to find ways to tell people why this matters so much, only to generally find that it falls on deaf ears. I'm so glad to see this so well-received here! In general, Steemit is better (although don't spend much time in the poetry trending section unless you want to be thoroughly discouraged and wringing your hands at heaven for days after).

I wrote article about precisely this way early on here, but it drained me dry: https://steemit.com/art/@kayclarity/sorry-but-no-not-everyone-is-an-artist & https://steemit.com/poetry/@kayclarity/bad-poetry-online-and-what-we-can-do-about-it & https://steemit.com/beauty/@kayclarity/beauty-isn-t-just-pretty-some-thoughts-that-felt-important-to-share . You handle it better, with more gentleness, but it really comes from the same, desperate heart. When I'm more in that place, I may start writing about it again.

I'd love if you check out the recent album I mentioned - just as a bit of hope that there are artists working hard to bring beauty back as the cultural norm for starving souls!

Anyway, thank you so much for bringing this conversation to the fore here. I'm so grateful any time I see this discussed.

Hy! I am a bot and I find your post valuable for the art community! Thanks for great post! I follow you!

I agree with the statement you made ....that beautiful things always stay beautiful and ugly things always remains so....perspective changes person go person ....but the beauty remains for all the same to every individual....Although the beauty may change with the time say after a century ... It is the beauty of nature which makes people believe in God (sometimes called nature)

What is the "Golden Mean"? 🙏

I joined Steemit today. Explored the topic of art and selected your post due to the simple but descriptive title and colorful stained glass church windows. I was looking for good examples of posts on the subject of art. I found one here. You did a nice job and I liked it for its own sake, i.e. not as merely as a good example.

I watched a few minutes of the video you shared. Now I'm going to turn on the smart TV and watch that video on our widescreen.

Where I calm from "Beauty is in the eyes of the Beer Holder"[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmRnL6prTDcuNJ9LaFaedwogj6xwy98UcDJ2tZvjqMggtn/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beer-holder.jpg]

I totally agree with you @cryptoctopus, Your concept of beauty is very similar to what I have, and even I have found a certain objectivity that moves the soul and heart, in different artistic expressions, be it figurative art, music, and so on. I personally am not religious, but I thank religion for all the artistic beauty that it has created, and which has conditioned and excited us in our lives. Beautiful article, let's continue to create and share Beauty, and the world will be better.

It took me 2 days to comment your video. I had to write it down in spanish first to get my ideas in order. The thing about beauty, is that it requires time! I thinks it all goes down to people wanting instant reward and gratification. You can see it here on #steemit, people want to get millionaire without even making an effort on making good content. If you look at all these old churches, besides beauty, what they all have in common is all the detail and perfection. It's not something done over night. Today everything is about industrialization, getting the most amount done in less time, and less effort. You know how long it took to make the Hall of the Five Hundred in Florence? I don't, but I bet it was a lot. Who on earth will spend half their lives on a ceiling? Just Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo. So I think it's not that we don't value it anymore, it's just that almost no one now and days is willing to spend the time and sacrifice it demands. All roof tops are now just plain boring white. Which pretty much sucks.

[IMAGE: https://steemitimages.com/DQmTHb9xRX7vsd89vDDsMLfzuuGe2PRiBGEo41QtESZKiCo/_DSC0076.jpg]

Wow! Your post touched my heart😭. In the first instance because my biggest goal is to know Italy, I feel that something of my is there, so much the connection that my name is Adriana for those who do not know my name comes from a woman of the Adriatic Sea who is specifically in Italy. Most of it, maybe it's just a simple concidence but I see it as something bigger and finally someone told me one day that if you want to look at the beautiful thing you see once, but if you want to see the real beauty look twice.
Beauty perishes in life, but it is immortal in art.

this post is very interesting and inspirational and very content wise. I hope to see more of this kind blog post Sir. greetings from Philippines

Inside every creature is a beautiful seed that oozes beauty.

There is no life without beauty, for everything was created beautiful.

Hello @cryptoctopus! Really interesting text my friend. It brought a lot of provocative thoughts into my head, and I agree a lot with you on your point about beauty being objective and atemporal. But let me just problematize a bit. And before a disclaimer: there's a lot of political arguments to me made concerning this question. I'm not taking sides here. I'm just talking about art within its philosophical territory and concerns.

One of the purposes of art is beauty, but it is not the only one. Beauty, as a philosophical subject, is a historical concept. Even though you can relate its characteristics to other historical phenomena, it still has a limited influence in the history of Art.

Mankind has been making art long before we could define what beauty is. If you could point to a more universal question, in the field and history of Art, it certainly wouldn't be the question of beauty. But rather the more broad insights on sensation and perception, the realm of aesthetics; within which lies the subject in question: beauty. Beauty has once been the main subject and praxis of philosophy and art. It still is, in a certain way and for some schools of thought. But in general, art has never dwelt solely with the beautiful. It depicts also the ugly, the strange, the other, the false, the broken, the stolen, the murdered, the neglected, all the miracles and horrors of mankind...

To restrain art to the question of beauty, is like restraining though to a specific subject, a pleasing one. What about what stays out of subject in question? How we define beauty? Are there other aspects of beauty that go beyond what we might entail?

Beauty is objective due to its historical backgrounds. I'm not disagreeing that there are things and phenomena that aren't beautiful. Of course there are. But we shouldn't restrain artistic thought and praxis only to that which is desired or predefined by a set of accepted ideals and social measures. The main concern of Beauty is beauty. Maybe there's a little bit more about art than that, I think.

Really well thought out text, I was immersed. And its really nice to trade insights with someone in a environment that encourages debate and cooperative ideas....

I have been thinking about this post for several days and trying to formulate my thoughts to reply, but I finally decided to just spew them out rather than make them too tidy, so here goes:

1. I visited Rome and Florence with my son-in-law in December and we both had a very similar experience as yours. In awe of the beauty, and at the same time mourning what Western culture has become. As we were walking through the Vatican museum we were almost physically revolted by the Modern art section. After all the beauty of the Renaissance, the rest seems just trashy. When we were in Florence we experienced the same when we came upon a large gray “sculpture” near the Uffizi gallery that basically looked like a pile of literal crap.

2. As far as Roger Scruton’s video goes, regardless of whether we go with the Platonic theory or some other explanation for why we have an aptitude for recognizing beauty, I think it’s difficult to try to argue against this universal recognition of beauty and ugliness by people across cultures and eras. The details might vary, but the basic concepts of beauty/ugliness are universal.

3. I very much agree with Scruton when he discusses the soul-deadening effects of contemporary architecture. I love his notion that if we aim primarily for utility we lose both beauty and usefulness but if we aim for supposedly useless beauty we gain both.

4. A minor point, but if I understand him correctly, Scruton implies that Newton’s theories led inevitably to the Deism that followed. Newton was in fact a very devout Christian and spent as much time writing a commentary on the book of Daniel as he did on physics.

5. I am VERY appreciative that you posted the link to the study connecting Christian conversion to the experience of visiting a beautiful church. I am a member of an Anglican community that is planting a church in my city, and while I have heard many anecdotes about young adults becoming more and more attracted to liturgical worship and liturgical churches (and the art and architecture associated with them), I had not been aware of the data in this study. Thank you for sharing it.

Sorry for the lengthy comment. Thanks for your post.

Resteeming such a wonderfully written post. Id upvote but atm my voting power is low. Thank you for upvoting one of my posts earlier.

Stumbled back on my reblog of this today. Yes, Scruton: what an immense gift. He kindly wrote me an affirming handwritten letter in response to some of my music I sent him. It was precious then, but I couldn't have imagined we'd lose him so soon after.

Anyway - glad to remember that so many others love him. He was critically informative for me as a young intellectual and artist - maybe to my career's detriment, as I often playfully say! But people are getting very hungry for beauty now more than ever with everything going on.