Listened through this full conversation earlier today. Sam remains my favourite public intellectual and such a calming and refreshing source of reason in an age of moral panic, petty quarrels and irrational behaviour across the political spectrum.

Highly recommend anyone to take some time off, make a cup of tea, sit somewhere quiet and listen to this whole conversation.

As for what I liked the most, how well it demonstrates that you can be very much opposed to far left anti-free speech, de-platforming, anti-science, thought-policing, identity politics-driven, jargon without failing to also criticize Trumpism.

Can you please define the last paragraph for me? What does all of that crap mean?

It refers to the portion of the left who believes that it is justifiable or positive to silence, threaten or smear the reputation of people whose ideas they disagree with. Whether it is members of Antifa who will use violence or the threats of it to cancel speaking events, the Southern Poverty Law Center putting people they disagree with on hit lists, or generally working to prevent people from sharing their ideas in public.

Also the identity politics of the far left that considers people's gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation as relevant information in a conversation, job recruitment or in policy.

First of all, it's all anti-liberal. Second, it is not helping achieve the necessary change(s) where the left needs to win on topics such as climate change, worker rights, getting money out of politics, etc.

The first thing you mentioned is called "free speech". When someone doesn't like someone else, they can use their speech to make things happen. No one has a right to make money speaking at colleges, if the students at that college don't want them, it's perfectly fine to tell them to fuck off.

It's a free speech issue that I'm not getting paid by fox to speak on their airwaves. I'm being censored! Help!

That argument is rubbish and makes no sense.

Affirmative action is bad now? You realize this was put into place to ensure that minorities weren't fired or ignored for everything, right? This also makes no damn sense.

You, and Sam Harris, make mountains out of molehills. There's absolutely nothing wrong with boycotts, and free speech on the left. Name one left politician who has put forth legislation to silence speech. I can name hundreds of right politicians who have tried to do that, but 0 left ones.

WHY? Because Leftists are in favor of freedom and righties aren't. Get your head out of your ass, tyvm

I think you missed the part where I said I am for policies on the left. Have been my whole life.

And no, it is not very productive to counter speech with violent protests, defamation and smear attacks. Let people speak. The best cure for bad ideas is to bring them to the surface and then beat them in public with better counter arguments.

The student protests only allow idiots like Milo and Ben Shapiro to get more attention than they deserve through being some form of martyrs. Silencing others on the far right only pushes them into echo chambers that breed extremists... It is not very progressive.

"Threats" the way you describe them do not exist.

Milo is literally broke and begging for money on twitter, his life and career is over, we beat him. Ben Shapiro is a rich millionaire that gets paid thousands of dollars for his own radio show, he doesn't need to speak at colleges for attention. You're lying.

I'm not on fox news every minute of every day, that means they are censoring me!!! Help! As a human, I need to be paid thousands of dollars to speak at all times otherwise I'm being censored!!!

You are either lying, or buying the lies of others. This narrative does not exist outside of fiction. Right wingers are anti free speech, pretending lefties are in any capacity is what makes you delusional. One side is trying to force us to pledge loyalty to israel, the other is fighting for human rights of Palestinians. GFY

Lol. People like you are the reason Trump may still win in 2020🤷‍♂️

The classic "i lost the argument so let me run and hide" move.

Reminder you are censoring me by not paying me to talk. This is your logic, not mine.

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No. You didn't even answer my arguments above. If Milo is broke and whether or not Shapiro is rich is not relevant information. If colleague conservatives want to invite them to speak then let them. You don't beat their bad ideas (and yes, I am with you in saying that they have shitty ideas) by shouting them down, adding security costs to the organizers through threatening demonstrations, etc. You win by allowing people to speak, and then point out how their logic fails and propose better arguments in return.

Secondly, I said this only results in them getting more attention when the demonstrations and outrage results in something newsworthy. Where they then get to go on Fox, other networks, or share YouTube videos documenting the protests. It doesn't help you win, it helps them win.

Finally, I said "winning" by silencing people with different ideas only deterres people into dark web corners that breeds far right extremists. So it is also just a stupid thing to do if you believe in liberal values.

Oh, and stop self-voting your own comments. It looks stupid with the new reward curve and free downvotes, and it is not very liberal thing to do when there are good creators here who bring real value.

Rich people don't need to be paid to speak. That's not how free speech works.

Why do you keep ignoring my point? Why won't you pay me to speak? Why are you censoring me?

"shouting" is a form of speech, sorry that it's too loud for your feelings.

I'll continue to upvote myself if it triggers you, that just makes it more fun!

> Rich people don't need to be paid to speak. That's not how free speech works.

Nor did I ever imply anything that suggests that they do. I purposefully separated the two issues of deplatforming and anti-free speech because as you say they are two different things. Aka, people have the right to express themselves without facing threats of violence or persecution, and not the right to any platform. You're just putting words in my mouth.

The portion of the left that supports Antifa, or protests that add a big financial cost to organizers who want to have conservatives speak (thus making many unable to afford people whose ideas they want to hear to talk), are indeed anti-free speech.

Those who systematically de-platform are not censoring, as you say, but they are contributing to the two other problems I mentioned: 1. Pushing those ideas into far-right echo chambers instead. And 2. Make those they de-platform into some type of martyrs that now get more attention than they deserve.

Again, you're just completely disconnected. I also want Bernie to win, and support most progressive policies. But the fringe like yourself make it far harder for liberal ideas to win.

You cited only right wingers as victims, and the left as instigators. This narrative is false. Rich right wingers have the money to make noise. All of us on the left do not.

This is why you're being counterproductive.

Pretending (because you arent citing reality at ALL) that Antifa is just protesting college speakers is not only disrespectful to the dozens of us that have been murdered by fascists in the streets, but it also supports the fascist narrative.

Actions speak louder than words. Saying you like bernie doesnt mean that your racist defending is automatically okay.

How am i fringe? What policies do i support that make you say that? Or are you just a reactionary who speaks before they think?

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> Actions speak louder than words. Saying you like bernie doesnt mean that your racist defending is automatically okay.

Rofl, this is so ridiculous that I'm now done. I've not defended any racists. I didn't even mention any right-wingers without also adding that I disagree with their positions. And even for racists, it's better to let them speak, and then tear down their stupidity with good arguments. Me making this point is not supporting racism, it is my opinion on how we can best fight it. Your way of insisting that anyone who disagrees with the approach and methodology of groups like antifa are "supporting a fascist narrative", or generally the way you only accept views that are all the way on your side, is helping Trump win by alienating people who find you to be just as harmful in terms of allowing a progressive conversation as many of the alt-right internet trolls (all of whom are losers as far as I can tell).

And of course leftists can be victims too...

Your NARRATIVE is FALSE. That is my point, why you can't understand it is beyond me.

You IGNORED my points about ""free speech""

YOU IGNORE EVERYTHING ABOUT ANTIFA BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE ZERO RESEARCH

When you lie about antifa, you are using a fascist narrative. You lied about antifa. For no reason, there's no proof of what you said. You're spewing what right wingers think without questioning your sources. It's ludicrous. But sure, run away and hide, and continue to deflect and not answer questions. You'd make a good politician!

WE DON'T CONVINCE RACISTS, WE BEAT RACISTS. THAT'S IT.

Woooooo majority of opinion on the left. I think Sam Harris there tried to be subjective and transparent with his altruistic perception which I find to be sheer brilliance. In my opinion, I think deep down many people share islsmaphobia but these people understand that we can't just relate islam to terrorism because it will be really shallow, however as much as we want to be open minded, we're humans and fear can make us hold some certain opinionated perception of an entire race in general. That said changing of these mindset despite the effect of terrorism in our societies depends on us.

@davidpakman, Racism is injected in this world really heavily and in my opinion it adds so much to Politics for the game of Divide And Rule.

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Who injects it into this world?

I see this subject in a Metaphysical way and definitely many will not going to agree with me. In my opinion at the end of the day it's a battle between Good and Evil and to deceive and to divide Humanity few people hold the evil thoughts they divide masses in my opinion, and Racism is one of them.

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Huh

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🙂

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