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You can def up the numbers a bit with more AI assistance. In my analysis
We at Magi do 8x the output that Ecency does on what was 3.5x the budget on basically state of the art greenfield tech thats generously speaking 10-20x more complex with 100s of tests and architecture design needed for each feature that doesnt exist elswhere.

And to note, Ecency was in second place behind us, which should tell people that others need to pick up their efficiency quite a bit as well.

We are not competing with serious blockchains at the current rate of development in the ecosystem.

Bro 🤦‍♂️

Yes, you can code 8x faster with AI, but can you review 8x faster? No. Not without being sloppy.

Oh, let me guess—you'll use AI to review too?

I use AI to work, and I've worked for two US tech companies (ex-Uber, current Pinterest) where we had access to all AI tools plus direct training from frontier AI labs. AI is unavoidable for our job. It's deeply integrated into our workflow, and without it we'd take longer to ship or even find internal docs.

Yes, we can code 8x, 10x, even 100x faster. But the bottleneck is reviewing. The more code AI writes, the harder it becomes to understand what it did, why it did it, and how it integrates with the rest of the codebase.

In real terms, if you write code 10x faster, you're maybe 2x more productive because of the time you'll spend reviewing and wrapping your head around it.

8x code delivery is dangerously "vibe-coded startup SaaS" level of "productivity."

Your comment makes me skeptical of Magi's safety. You responded well to the proposal, but now you're doubling down on AI to ship even more. That worries me.

If you think 8x code delivery comes for free, that's concerning. Combined with your earlier comment about those three vulnerabilities Claude found being known but unaddressed—by the time they're fixed, there will be many more. And I'm afraid you'll address them with even more AI. Why would you ship code with known vulnerabilities? Why not fix it first? I know why: because that requires reviewing, and it sounds like you really want to ship 8x more code, regardless of quality. That scares me.

I do agree AI can produce better, faster code. But if AI makes you 8x more productive, you're not actually 8x more productive—you just look 8x more productive. That's dangerous, and it makes me skeptical. You almost had me with the proposal, but you just pushed me away.

I really hope Magi works, everything gets fixed, and your approach is right. I hope I'm wrong. But as it stands? What you're saying is scary. It sounds a lot like my friends who just discovered vibe coding.

Edit: ran ecency AI to fix typos and grammar. Sorry for the excessive dashes it adds, I will take them over grammar mistakes.

>Yes, you can code 8x faster with AI, but can you review 8x faster? No. Not without being sloppy.

Bro, lets not be absurd. I was being more than fair and generous because not only is this code related but we do hundreds of tests on devnet and then testnet and have to prove the code is safe and working. Its all new tech. Not only does "faster" include code theres multitudes more work going into it.

>Your comment makes me skeptical of Magi's safety.

These absurd assumptions are laughable. We run hundreds of audits monthly, penetration tests, spend probably a 100+ hours a month on safety and bug hunting alone. So we use Ai assistance on code but dont use it extensively on security?
These are the kinds of bad faith accusations that are simply emotionally driven due to liking the project that you feel is attacked.

>Why would you ship code with known vulnerabilities? Why not fix it first?

What are you talking about? Who is shipping code with known vulnerabilities?

Those are all comments I have made on your proposal. Nothing I said here is new except my surprise to you mentioning again very high multiple X coding speeds.

Who is shipping code with known vulnerabilities? You said you are. Maybe we have different opinions on the word "shipping", but to me if it was merged it was shipped even if not in prod. Let me rephrase then using your definition , you are not shipping code (because it is not on mainnet) with known vulnerabilities but you are merging code with known vulnerabilities . You acknowledged on the proposal that the 3 vulnerabilities claude found on my side with a single pass were identified May 2 (so merged before that) ago but not patched by May 5th, not on mainnet, granted, but merged and vulnerable

https://ecency.com/@lordbutterfly/re-igormuba-teks9y

>These were all found May 2nd during the audit round for EVM. They will be applied over the next few days.

This is what worries me when devs delivery 8x code. I am not defending Ecency because I like them, it is because I commented my worries about security in a proposal asking for over 300k and the guy who made that proposal came to another proposal brag about the development speed of a team that asks for 1/3 of their budget.

If your proposal asked for 1/3 of what Ecency is asking I would actually be impressed and my view on the whole "8x" would change completely, but it is the opposite, Ecency are the ones asking for 1/3 and they are not trying to push their dev methods on anyone else's proposal let alone on smaller proposals, you are the one asking for more (3x more) and promoting your questionable (questionable in my eyes, which I questioned directly at your proposal) methods on a smaller proposal (1/3 the size of yours)

Edit: to make it clear, accountability is all about perspective, ask for more and get questioned more

>Maybe we have different opinions on the word "shipping",

Obviously.

>but not patched by May 5th, not on mainnet, granted

Yeah not even close to mainnet, going up for testing and undergoing audits.

>they are not trying to push their dev methods on anyone else's proposa

Oh yes, the "shut the hell up and look the other way" approach. Yeah no, not only will I not abide but this mentality has been present for ages, if you know whats best for you keep it to yourself. If youre running a proposal, its better that we all support each other, right. Buddies. See how @asgarth popped in? On accident? 😂

Well no, I will not be silent and not speak my mind and accept you telling me:
"Oh if you asked 1/3 of their ask then you can speak."

Seriously, what kind of logic is that?

You shouldn't be silent but you should also not expect others to be silent or to not express disagreement. You are free to speak your mind but he who talks is also talked to.

>what kind of logic is this?

The logic that projects and leaders who ask for more budget get asked more questions and confronted more, and by asking for more and being more socially active you open the door to what you may feel is invalid or unfair criticism.

>You shouldn't be silent but you should also not expect others to be silent or to not express disagreement.

Youre projecting.

>The logic that projects and leaders who ask for more budget get asked more questions and confronted more

That has literally nothing to do with you telling me not to speak because Magi is asking for more money than Ecency.
I never objected to any questions.

Appreciate the thoughtful breakdown, Igor. The "AI makes you code faster but the bottleneck shifts to review" point is exactly right and applies to anyone shipping code, including us. Real productivity gain is much smaller than raw output speed, and assuming otherwise gets people in trouble. Good context to put on the public record.

Glad to see some stupid take every once in a while to cheer up the comment section 😄

Analysis based on what? If you had built at 8x the output in the past 12 months you would have a rocket ship about to land on Mars by now.

> tech thats generously speaking 10-20x more complex

Is this the same tech you (a non developer) have been able to pick up and move forward in 2 months using AI?

I wouldn't want to be on that rocket ship built at 8x with AI

I don't mind the AI part. I just don't like people zeroing out on other teams like that for no reason.

It was for a very good reason. Go read the mattermost discussion.

But its great people sticking together throwing insults not knowing context.
I actually saved him from presenting publicly, false information he repeated multiple times in Mattermost, that was off by 90%, not 5%, 10%, 90... which he obviously had the sense to address here.

But great to show support, dont let facts get in the way.

Ugh, love it. Its kind of why I didnt publish it. People dont like others looking. Analysis based on DORA, SPACE, Martin Fowler, Pragmatic Engineer, CHAOSS methodologies and a custom built DME index.

>If you had built at 8x the output in the past 12 months you would have a rocket ship about to land on Mars by now.

No, not 12 months, as I wasnt leading the team at the time, but for the last 3 months yes, what we delivered is akin to landing a fleet of rocket ships on Mars.

>Is this the same tech you (a non developer) have been able to pick up and move forward in 2 months using AI?

Im a part of a team of 7 people, I did not build Magi.

Feel free to counter what Im claiming.

> what we delivered is akin to landing a fleet of rocket ships on Mars.

Love the enthusiasm. Keep it up 🤣

Absolutely.

So like I said in the last post, Do you actually make any revenue at all?

Yes, we have small revenue from Points purchases and premium account signups.

Seems like that would be something that should be in the transparency report if you are asking for funds.

Fair point.
https://trust.ecency.com shows expenses but doesn't currently break out the small revenue streams (Points purchases, premium accounts) as separate line items. We'll add that breakdown in the next transparency update. The amounts are modest - not material to covering infrastructure cost today - but you're right that "asking for funds" comes with an obligation to show all sides of the financial picture, including the small income side. Thanks for the push.

Hey, ecency! It’s been a while. When I reinstalled the app today, I was truly amazed by all the updates I observed while trying to scroll what’s up. Yay! It’s indeed a job well done.

Good follow up, although I believe that DAO funding should be more agile and restrictive nowadays. The world is changing and reshaping with AI, thus crazy budgets need to be revised.

Agreed - AI is reshaping cost structures across the board, and DHF funding norms should evolve with that reality. Worth a broader community conversation on what "right-sized" looks like in 2026 with proper transparency reports

The system has been so abused that it's now difficult to get proposals approved. Apologies for this personal reflection.

I think more emphasis should be placed on being self-sustaining or even contributing to the overall ecosystem. Advertising should be an option, even if it contributes a minimal amount. It's a scalable system; if we attract more users, we'll earn more from advertising.
The costs seem very high to me. Hive is global, so I don't see the reason to pay Western programming or other prices.
In short, we need proposals that contribute, not those that consume resources. If Hive surpasses one dollar, then we can reconsider our vision.

At Hive Open Days I have met so few people that were against ads on Hive, if the choice is withering away or getting ads the choice is obvious, they would choose ads.

I am actually yet to meet someone, apart from Hive frontend devs, who oppose ads.

It is not as if we are not giving away our data for free with Hive. Anyone can train any AI or run a node and get all the onchain data for free.

We post where we are and what we are doing and about our hobbies and any advertiser outside Hive can cross reference and target us without giving back anything at all to Hive. Why not get rewarded while at it?

Thanks, that's definitely a better post!

Thanks, your initial feedback is what prompted this post. Appreciated.

Since SEO came up again.

Try to fit in for bigger updates some cheap press release.

Add a " Blog or Update" section on ecency ( only for SEO, static pages).

And well maybe some basic guest posts on Blogs/ websites that are crypto or Freedom of speech related ( and that cost 0 if done right with the right way to outreach and be nice, only time).

This way one front end could show up in search since nobody does here Offpage work.

I know nobody cares and people say it for years and i bacame tired too to mention it.

Remember the marketing proposal? years ago? " we hire expert agency top 10 worldwide".

Just for Info, top 10 agencies are private and do marketing for 1 client only and next it was a waste. Not a single mention from other websites to hive or what hive does. Something evergreen.

So sad it is, this is untapped long hanging fruit potential bigger as the waste of all proposals that never attract 1 new user.

Appreciate this and you're right that offpage SEO is the biggest underexploited lever on Hive.

On our side, the onpage/technical foundation is in good shape - CDN caching for content delivery (fast page loads, consistent
crawler response times), clean SSR markup on Vision-Next, canonical tags, sitemaps. That's the easier half.

The harder half - which is what you're pointing at - is external authority. We've started something there: the weekly Ecency news
digest gets cross-posted to Medium specifically as a backlink play, slowly building external signals over time. It's not fast, but it compounds. Guest posts on crypto and free-speech blogs is a logical next step, fully agree the right approach is patient outreach and being genuinely useful, not paid placements.

On the static "Blog/Update" section - good idea, we can look at a dedicated update/changelog page on ecency.com that's clean markup for crawlers and links well from the homepage. Most of our update content lives in Hive posts which are indexable, but a consolidated static page would help.

Marketing with big agency spend rarely beats consistent low-cost ongoing work. The path you're describing (cheap, consistent, evergreen, relationship-based) is the right one. Will keep pushing on it.

Thanks for feedback.

Well never go agency, is waste of money. All big companies have 1 client agencies ( so is basically inhouse). 99% of others are close to scam, the problem is profit margin of those services is around 70%+.

I recommend Inhouse + paid services ( by service) like news release. The updates on Hive style is ok but also link that in a static Blog ( like rework the Ecency Blog in a scroll down down with Full content display / 50% content display, this depends.

This will be your link juice gatherer.

From here you Silo other stuff so the juice can flow.

Thats a big problem on Hive, you are right and 99% of people ignore it or dont understand it. If you have money, hire someone for consulting ( not me, no time for this). Would recommend some Affiliate SEO dude that has numbers to show, they should be able to do basic keyword research + Brand marketing.

And Brand marketing keywords " Hive, Hive Blockchain, Social Blockchain, Social media token, Blockchain Rewards for social media posts, Free transaction Blockchain and so on ( i did not research those in any tool, just from my mind).

But really, NEVER GO AGENCY! Please. Thats like burn money. Every CEO needs to understand marketing and sales for his product, thats 90% of work and product is 10%. No user = no value. No buyer = no revenue.

On hive is 99.9% product and zero marketing, so this is untapped.

If you need help for services ( i used in past) i can send you some.

Also get some retard with to much time and basic SEO knowledge + good ourtreach skills ( OR AI + scrapper) to hit up people from outside.

Most Tech people are cool ( most Blogger are cool people), so they are most times open for a Q and A or some Post ( i mean you could literally ask them to try the platform and reward them with 100% upvotes for good user experience and tell them is a cool backup).

With outreach to those Blogs you can get 1000$ worth links for free ( for work).

Next is donation links, a lot of open source projects link back to the people who donate, donate 20$ and get a link. You help some cool project and other tech people see your logo and you get a Backlink. I think you know, most open source devs doesnt swim in cash.

Off course thats a lot of work and research, it needs some tools and someone with Knowledge.

BUT REMEMBER DONT GO AGENCY, the people who work there are literally retarded. They sell their product, thats it.

I know so many agency owners ( also very big). Really, dont do it.

The Seo big brains run own projects and earn this way way more. Remember this, big brain SEO = own projects. A very big affiliate site can make 100k a month easy. So dont expect you get a High end SEO for 10k a month.

So since both are no options, build it inhouse and ask community to help. The problem with hive is, rewards are only onchain.

Imagine a reward mechanic for "reach" ( could be build by advertisement and rev share).

I say those things since years, the last time i said it i got attacked from a lot of people ( like advertisements are bad and so on). Monetize eyeballs can build a cycle of Token value sustainable + free eyeballs from outside, i mean come on, we have a stablecoin.

A step ( and now we go offtopic) beyond could be bring affiliate payments onchain.

Imagine someone pays you for SEO ( advertisement revenue). Then it becomes fun.

with no revenue, its pain in the ass since you earn 0 if you onboard 10k more users with higher rankings ( you have more costs with that).

So i would start here and design a revenue stream + a massive outreach engine.

What you can do today for free? Write 10 emails a day to people that have a Blog outside and make the mail personal ( if you are lazy ask AI to research the person).

Some last words in the wall of text, paid is not bad by design. But not the news sites. Press release ( big companies use too) are useful for every shit update. So google and search engines knows you do something ( i used it for shit affiliate websites in the past, so imagine how unreadable the content was).

This cost around 100$ to 500$ depending what you want. With a 1000$ budget a month you can easy rank keywords like " hive" on page 1 + a lot of work.

You also want the big Box in google and co ( not the search result, the big box with little links under it with subpages), thats always the goal for brand marketing.

Imagine this work for all the years Hive is around, we would have traffic like hell. The problem is, nobody sees it and takes it god given.

One last thing, Organic growth is a myth in link building if people dont hate you. If they hate you, they complain and link to your page. But nobody links to you " wow this website is badass", this never happens by nature.

Well i hope that was not a blast into the void, haha.

I am free to tag you @blocktrades, since i think thats a general hive problem and the shit i did write could have some value

Real solid thread, appreciate the deep dive.

Few specific things landing well:

The donation-backlinks angle is sharp - genuinely helping open source projects while building authority is exactly the "evergreen, relationship-based" approach that actually compounds. Easy first move for us.

Manual outreach with personalized emails (AI-assisted research is fine, the personalization is what matters) - agreed completely.
Offering bloggers a platform try with upvote rewards is a natural Hive-specific incentive that fits our values, no ad budget needed. We will research and gradually do those - right now we're focusing on getting the word out by being active on X, Instagram, Medium... Our self-hosted or dedicated community instances could offer bloggers/influencers home that they can easily setup.

Static Blog/Updates section with proper silo structure - this is the clearest single technical SEO win we haven't fully built yet. Going to look at it seriously. We have RSS feeds and caching content as static rendering which partly does what you suggested.

Brand keyword targeting (Hive, Social Blockchain, Blockchain Rewards for social media, Free transaction Blockchain) - good list, mostly matches the disambiguation problem we already think about (searching "Hive blockchain" surfaces HIVE Digital Technologies, the NASDAQ mining company, not us). Brand-marketing keyword work would help fix that. On every PR or outside content we mention Hive and it has gotten better over the years.

On the agency point - hard agree. We've never gone that route and won't. Big agency spend rarely produces lasting authority. The inhouse+per-service model you describe is right.

The deeper point worth surfacing: you're absolutely correct that "more users = more cost" without monetization is the trap. SEO without revenue is just expensive vanity. That's why the revenue paths in the previous post (hive-x402, AI Credits, Vision-Next self-hosted) aren't optional - they're the precondition for being able to grow without going broke from success. SEO + revenue + retention has to be a system, not three separate efforts.

X medium and co are only social signals, page rank gives them lower ranking factors ( i mean you can buy 5000 over time feed social signals for 10$), thats low value stuff.

btw sounds like AI answer, always say retard as proof of human lmao.

With a revenue model, i might be interested in helping/ building or help you to build a automated pipeline for those things. But must be a real business :)

Promote a product not a vibe. What is hive? It was Freedom of speech to proof of social jerk off or what hivewatchers calls it these days" to whatever. Thats the most gay product to tell or promote.

A real revenue product and the social part is here but not core ( since gay and retarded + doesnt scale with value of post) would be worth promoting.

Social can only scale if front ends monetize eyeballs and give something back to content creators, this way the trending would be less gay and platforms would show the content the user spend most time on and not " look how social we are feel good content".

The reward system is a joke, more like a donation ( with auto donate function). And IMO it causes more damage then good. It would be better no rewards and post what you want.

Btw first time someone on hive gets it to make revenue. I had this talk in comment sections over the years again and again. It always ended up the way people dont know how the internet works and every website is a "business" or expensive hobby.

do you work with @theycallmedan for your ai stuff? Or is this another project ( good example for a press release)

We are not utilizing that project, keeping an eye on its development though

ok. I think ecency itself needs a revenue stream. I dont see how the AI will be hive specific and there are already other cool projects out you can give hardware for $ that work on scale for AI ( crypto too).

It will be a nice project for sure for Hive.

IMO it would be worth to build 2 things for you exclusive.

First could be ( hive scale) a backend for advertisers that lists all platforms and they can buy adspace ( huge market with traffic).

Second could be the same but for ecency only. I know people say " but people have adblock".

Well, it could be a sponsored post that shows up too. A lot of workarounds.

Or something else. I did write a longer post about that years ago. Another thing could be some " pay per lead / per sale / per click" engine for advertisers for hive front ends. And the best thing, it could scale beyond hive but paid with HBD for example.

Gives HBD a real usecase + revenue for ecency. And someone always will book the adspace, is not like is worth 0. Quality comes with time.

And this way, imagine how you could change the content algo. Upvotes and downvotes could have 0 influence.

btw some onpage shit you need to change. IF you check your platform you recommend content in footer / sidebar. Sometimes the content is years old. This should be relevant for time spend max + user experience increase.

I think i could wirte a 50 page audit what you could do to make it more user/ Seo friendly

Btw there is a very long hanging fruit around,

Interlink hive projects to each other in a non spam way. Maybe also static Blog + introduction post of each.

Is a bit sad tbh this shit not happen by default.

@ecency The infrastructure transparency is the part I appreciate most — it's rare to see a project break down actual operating costs vs. proposal ask. One gap I'd be curious about: how does the mobile user growth curve track against infrastructure cost growth? If onboarding accelerates 2-3x in the next year, does the current ask still hold, or does the unit economics change at scale?