> In court.

Which court would that be? The court of public opinion? To me the theft is less interesting than the legal grey area of crypto. We are entering a realm where people can't be prosecuted.

What is @dstors? Who is @dstors? If someone is found to be in possession of the private key does that make them legally responsible for the actions of the account? What if it's just the posting key?

We are entering an age of opt-in governance, and stuff like this is only going to make less sense as time goes on. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The Ethereum Classic community makes the argument that the DAO hack wasn't theft, or if it was then it wasn't worth prosecuting. Code-is-law governance will be an option for everyone.

You point out a fear of mine that is secondary to me to the fact that such a theft is not only taking place in front of all of us, but with seeming support from a segment of the community. I am guessing that the international barriers as well as desire for anonymity is emboldening such a move. This is exactly the type of shit that gives a door for oversight, and regardless of some saying it isn't theft, it is. If this line of thought becomes law, there will never be any mass adoption, and I predict there will be lots of violence. There are people who would do horrible things for far less value being taken.

I've seen people die over digital items in a video game. Certainly this is a much bigger deal. It just points to the fact that blockchain will create just as many problems as it destroys. Welcome to the future.

The thiefs responses thus far have amounted to "If he doesn't have a witnessed signature of me admitting to stealing the funds in the account then it's not theft". If all the generosity that he's seen is true, and why wouldn't it be, then he is amid the most despicable kinds of people there are. I never liked how haejin abused his stake but that doesn't mean he's deserving of this duplicitous douchebag hijacking the funds he put into the account.

Posted using Partiko Android

The court depends on the Jurisdiction and where the plaintiff choses the venue. The defendant could get his straw man attacked in his native/current KR jurisdiction OR in the plaintiffs native/current jurisdiction, either way, Fraud is Fraud, theft is theft. The DOA hack not being theft isn't an argument. An argument is simply if a is b and b is c then a is always c, a proposition followed by other supportive propositions leading to a conclusion, not just a proposition, not only an assertion. In terms of ownership it doesn't matter that the keys were in the car, it doesn't matter how the founds were compromised, because theft is INTENTION and PRODUCTS/ACTS.

ETC does not have an argument, they have a marginal and dare I say fringe opinion at most on why a HF should or shouldn't happen, or as you put it "if it was theft it wasn't worth prosecuting", which is embarrassingly only support of the theft, nothing more, no reasoning or explanation could ever manifest for "not worth prosecuting".

Posted using Partiko Android

I think the argument for ETC is pretty simple. The hacker followed the rules. You don't reverse immutability on the main chain because someone fucked up a custom smart contract.

The same logic applies to privacy. You don't take away privacy because a small minority of people are going to use that privacy to break the law. The problems created by taking away privacy are far bigger than the ones that exist. Sometimes doing nothing is the smartest course of action.

That being said I think I would have been on team Ethereum over ETC if I had been around when it happened. Community consensus is the new law. We're forging the ability to bend or break the law for relevant exceptions. A middle ground needs to be forged because both sides of the spectrum have serious consequences.

Immutability is worthless if theres a gaping hole in the underlying or overlying infrastructure built on the chain that allows people to basically cheat and steal funds out of others, that's why ETC have no argument, no logic and only a fringe opinion/baseless assertion that Code Is Law because there's no relevant explanation why and how immutability is above all else and that's why it's only assertion. That's why there's a maxim of law that says For every Rule or Law, there is an exception, because rules and laws aren't devoid of logic, ethics, or sensibility. It doesn't make sense to say that "Reality allows it" when it's a matter of ethics or morality and in the same way it's utter nonsense to affirm that Immutability is above all else, especially when the question is "when should the blockchain be edited, reverted or modified" to which the only acceptable and sensible answer should be Whenever a consensus forms (observe how, not why).

Posted using Partiko Android
Edit
Sorry about the double comments and wanted to add that the only exception I see to Whenever consensus forms is exactly what ETC is: when a fringe few would rather die in obscurity instead of considering it an ethical problem as opposed to what's allowed by reality so to speak (observe why, not how).

The idea of democracy is beautiful, in nature one doe stands up, signaling that it is thirsty and wants to head to the watering hole, then another joins, and another, and as soon as a majority forms they all get up and go, but then when democracy is used to empower certain groups and violate others it creates the exploitable positions that make democracy redundant at best but usually destructive to freedom and life. The reason democracy exists is to chose a specific course of action in regards to generally how but also why a group of people decide they ought to combine their efforts to fulfill a communal objective. That's why democracy works and is legitimate for ETH and why by code is law as when/how a hardfork happens ETC is illegitimate, a fraud, and functionally it's a haven for thieves.

From the evidence here, it's clear that demands were made to return money that haejin "left" in the @dstors account. If that is so, that the funds are haejin's, it's black and white everywhere else except maybe the ETC camp, that it is theft. Does it mean that because it's international that he's escaped or evaded the consequences of Criminal and or Civil prosecution? No, that's why it's really funny that he's claiming to have talked to lawyers and can provide timestamps and source code and "designs", as if it takes a lawyer to recognize the act of taking what isn't yours or any big genius to spot the difference between talk of leaking info versus actual evidence relevant to exonerating the theft, he's clearly getting nowhere fast but even with the obvious admission of holding haejins funds hostage some people doubt the theft, which would be ok if haejin and others haven't also verified or confirmed it, a bit of twilight zone episode.

hi @edicted

> We are entering a realm where people can't be prosecuted.

Agree with you. Indeed this may be very interesting stage.

Nor do I get get the theft or court argument..

Youre all talking about theft and the right thing to do..
But didnt @haejin rape and steal from the Reward Pool? Was that the right thing to do?

“Thieves cant be successful. "

Until this is cleared up dstors are not looking good... ( I don't really know enough, to be honest)

Right is right, like you say - irrelevant of the character of the guy who has been ''cheated' (if he has)...

If they 'pulled a fast one', they will be doomed...

Based on statements made in this post here by kaliju

https://steemit.com/dcommerce/@kaliju/haejin

which I grabbed some of my screenshots from, as well as looking at their transactions (which doesn't verify all of it because of Binance transfers partially) and the fact Haejin is so adamant seems to make this pretty cut and dried. He spells out in the one screen shot I shared the conditions he "might" return the Steem. Nothing to return if you didn't take it.

I am shocked this hasn't doomed them already, but they are effectively running a bot service now for those who delegated to them as shows in their comments which I also shared a screenshot of.

HEY! LISTEN. What are you talking about really!? Bot service? ! I SPECIFICALLY said that this is to tie you guys over until we release. Customer service, maybe? Are you delegating? You're starting to piss me off man, I'm nice to a point. This is not cool. like I said, it is NONE of your business how I handle Haejin or what business I have with him. You think just because I'm nice you can ride on my weak spots? I'm also a human being and right now I'm feeling pretty fucking paranoid about who is who, as far as I know, you could be in cahoots with him plotting. How do I know you're not chatting behind my back for whatever reason? Be men all of you and handle it directly, privately, by writing me an email or contacting directly. Fishing for upvotes by stirring drama in public and look it worked! I'm out of here.
@kaliju

You do realize you are talking to @practicalthought?

You do realize the standing he has standing on steemit, in terms of integrity?
Obviously not.
You do realize what you are doing by replying to him like this....?

wow....just...wow...

You do realize that I'm also person with my own story, right? This is the first ever conflict I had on steem but I'm not about to be used and say "oh I'm sorry lords of steemit, who am I compared to you, please forgive me". I am the one being poked here and I don't appreciate it.

just asking for clarification on the claims made by @hejin - it's not an emotive argument, just facts..

The thief cries "I'm a human too". Who didn't realize you're a person too, with your own story? Clealy, you think someone is to blame for dehumanizing you otherwise why make it a point repeatedly you fucking thief? You stole, return the fucking money and die in obscurity, nobody that I see is queening up for your patronizing appologies.

Posted using Partiko Android

Wow, you take the cake. I addressed you two days ago about my primary concern, which was it kills your trust level if you are stealing others money. I don't know Haejin, and if you knew shit about me you would know better than to say something like that. Unlike many here I donate a good portion of my earnings, just check my transactions. You will also notice I have never interacted with Haejin.

Your imagining I am in "cahoots" as you say reminds me of the story of the Tell Tale Heart.

It was just a week ago I was going to bat for you based on credibility I had awarded you based on some who have been vouching for you. I tried very hard to help you salvage whatever could be. I am lost at how you think this is ok. But you won't have to worry about me. After this post, I will be shaking your venture from my feet. As I said in my post, if you can do this with his money out of anger, I know how you could treat mine if you held it from any potential buyers.

I went to bat for you man.

I was in support of him too, a week ago...

Thanks for pointing this post out to me.

> I don't know Haejin, and if you knew shit about me you would know better than to say something like that.

This applies to me also if I was to say the exact same sentence to YOU.

Let's not worry about buyers as it's all going to be p2p and with no middle man, thankfully. As for the batting, I will be fine on my own and deal with things as I always have. I NEVER run and take things that are not mine. But I also can't sit quite in the face of all the allegations and lecturing - it is personally stressful to read (it just comes up when someone mentions dstors) and this is not helping Haejin either as all stems from his impatience and running it publically. He's going to try to smear me here AND take legal action? When I fight back I'm like wild fire - nothing survives and he will earn that to his surprise pretty soon. Keep it up.

Non of that is answering the allegations leveled by @haejin though, is it?

...they seem pretty simple questions, from what I see...

>When I fight back I'm like wild fire - nothing survives and he will earn that to his surprise pretty soon. Keep it up.

I thought you were supposed to be structuring a business model?
This sounds unhinged.
You are doing yourself no favors matey ( i was on your side a week ago)

Allegations can be left at that. Here's his chance to turn me into a bad guy and undo himself. He needs this drama as can be seen from his desperation. Cheap tactics If you ask me, but can be effective when manipulating crowd's opinion. And manipulation is what he's good at, trust me I would know first.

If you have taken / withheld his money without him committing any fraud , then you become the bad guy.

Not the kind of thing you can get a business of the ground, not with that hanging around your neck.

Transparency is the key.

seems that none of them handle questions well.

It was clearly for me that @kaliju @dstors want to keep the @haejin s money for me! lol

Interesting.

Passing master password for some purposes make big troubles.

As soon as money is added to the account while the control is handed over,
recovery of the master password can taking the money added, theft etc.

I guess that one may have thought that account can be recovered when the lend is over,
but situation is not so simple in coin world.

They could have changed the account recovery ... but that's how people learn in crypto

No he isn't good at that at all. He's been on the blockchain for a long time and almost no one likes him.

We grudgingly accept he can do what he wants with his stake.

His very presence has kept others from investing.

You keep blaming everyone else for your behavior and emotions. I don't think you are cut out to run a business yet. Once you get your emotions under control you might have skills, it's unclear at this point.

Hey thanks for the post, I didn't even know this all was still boiling. Good to know.

It seems, will boil for a long time

Dear @dstors

I don't know you very well guys and I really don't like @H.

But I must admit that your comments and the way you talk to @practicalthought is going to damage @dstors heavily. Your PR is going to be crushed if you won't change your attitude.

> it is NONE of your business how I handle Haejin or what business I have with him

You're 100% wrong here. What you said is your Xmas wish. We can all wish that other people would not get involved and ruin our businesses. But that's what is happening now and you better address the problem in right manners or your reputation will be crashed.

> Be men all of you and handle it directly, privately, by writing me an email or contacting directly.

That would be only good for you. That's the thing about blockchain. Privacy is less. Transparency is more. And people will use it to their advantage.

Yours
Piotr

>But I must admit that your comments and the way you talk to @practicalthought is going to damage @dstors heavily. Your PR is going to be crushed if you won't change your attitude.

When I saw this, I just thought...wow...just ...wow...

I've had nothing to do with either of them until this, but he has more than shot himself in the foot with this kind of attitude.

Very true @lucylin

One doesn't need to know other person well to be able to recognize wrong attitude and trouble coming.

Yours
Piotr

>Wrong attitude?

To discuss logic and critical thinking?

>Trouble coming?

Dissecting arguments is something that you perceive as 'trouble coming'? Wow.

The aversion to doing this very things will be the number one downfall of this platform (imo).

The age of postmodernism is dying and those that cling onto it - and also any platforms that support such 'logic'.

'Leftist' platforms (I use the term 'leftist' to embrace any authoritarian condoning position, irrelevant of where on the political spectrum someone lies) .... have a very big chance of being ignored in the future - in favor of platforms where logical conversation is embraced and not seen 'as trouble' but as an opportunity to learn and expand ones mind.....which is best done through philosophical discourse (imo).

you're welcome!

ohm @lucylin

> Dissecting arguments is something that you perceive as 'trouble coming'? Wow.

I believe there is some misunderstanding happening. If you feel like Im challenging you then please accept my apology.

lololol...no, no , no it was completely my mistake, matey.
My apology to you.

I'm glad we're cool @lucylin :)

Absolutely - it was my error- 100%.

sorry- this was in reply to something else matey! oops! lolol

This is your opinion. What I know renders all your concerns invalid. You want the truth? You can't have it. Haejin already made me look like shit with his childish tantrums before all this when he was power tripping on the inside. He does it again here, spreading lies and confusion. He is oblivious. I can't concern myself with what you think or say, Haejin is the real thief and he's calling me one. It blows my mind - the audacity of that sociopath. I suggest you drop minding other people's business, with all due respect, because if he can't tell you how he and his family schemed to take the only thing that mattered to me (this project) from me, then no one can. Everyone's a judge all of a sudden, would you look at that! There is no value arguing or fighting opinions coming from the dark. Sorry but not sorry.

None of that gives you rightful ownership of his Steem, no matter how angry his actions made you. You pretty much admit you have his Steem in the screenshot I shared from your own post, your words.

> You want the truth? You can't have it

....and how is this perspective going to help you grow your business?
If people see this as a perspective you hold, they will not have confidence, will they?

Good business practice is about being honest. In this case, it starts with this financial debacle/ disagreement.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help.

Well, because haejin will never tell you the truth is what I mean. Seriously. No matter what I say, my reputation is already shot by means of gossip, misinformation and deceit from him and his clueless followers. This is a he say she say thing now, what can realistically be done at this point. Nothing. But I may start releasing proof of how he tried to force me out of dStors. I'm watching, for now.

You're conflating business maneuverings with financial transactions - this is not the the same.

Business manouverings may be horrible, but that's what happens.

Unless a fraud is committed, the financial responsibilities do not alter - no matter how much grievance is involved on a persona level (him trying to dictate the business, and a feeling of it being taken away from you etc.)

A quick resolution is best (for your own interest), it really is...

Resolve and move on a quick as possible.

Boom. I'm so glad someone else can see through the bullshit too.

He may be able to code, maybe not, I don't know...

But he can't handle feedback, conflict or trouble.. What are the odds he can build a successful business. Same can be said for the other project as well.

We need professionals if they are to be in charge of large delegations and projects. None of these guys can even handle their own emotions, odds of managing a large, long-term project... Nil.

There you go!!!!!..pass on to @haejin...I want big upvotes for this! lmao...

https://steemit.com/dtube/@lucylin/mredvnka

thats what she said!

The Office!

The fact is that reputation needs to be earned. It is harder to earn than money. Money can be stolen, it is possible to squeeze, but, so to do in the case of reputation, will not work. As a result, you have not earned money and have lost a hint of reputation. You yourself, give this profanation a definition. You can return everything that does not belong to you; it will not lift you up in our eyes, but people will not give a damn about you. They'll forget about you soon. This is not the worst option for you.

!Popcorn

Posted using Partiko Android

!popcorn

[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmSKW19jHmeVrtjGzqdC1DStkzB8zS8EFSJm9An2prQ3Yx/giphy.gif]

Now I see that you guys are just crooks. Many things can be found explanations, if to engage in dialogue. But, you blame the one who financed you. This is very low. It reminded me of a washing machine repairman who took the money from me and disappeared, and when I found him, he threatened me with the police and accused me of all mortal sins. The scale is different, but the essence is the same.

Posted using Partiko Android

Hey, please read my comment.

At this point and time, people have all made up their mind and keep calm and say less is my advice.

> Everyone's a judge all of a sudden

so, why argue with them anymore?

Back in late Summer, Kali Ju posted for help to pay for his medical bills; I responded and sent help. He approached me for dStors Witness vote and I helped. He sent notice on the birth of his second child and I sent gift. And the same person embezzles thousands of dollars from me. That hurt, it really hurt as I had trusted him.

Kali's original business model was weak, scattered and lacked strategy nor had direction. He was shooting from the hips, at best. I had urged him to compose a White Paper as a solid business plan is the foundation of any venture... but for some weird reason, he would not. Out of exasperation, I decided to write the WP and imbedd a for-profit business model and augmented it to a working token model. When I shared the draft of this WP, Kali along with @derangedvisions were very receptive and applauding and excited to execute. The WP demonstrated experience in putting together a solid business plan, strategy, tactics....none of which were in place in any recongizable form prior to our side's involvement. Counter to @derangedvision's uninformed claims; yes, I have wealth; I also have rich experience in startups along with putting together business deals in excess of $100 Mil. Kali was always poignant to learn everything he could from me as he repeatedly told me.

It should be made known, that my side legally and contractually owns 70% of everything having to do with dStors and www.dstors.com. In return, Kali Ju required monthly cash payments. Given the STEEM price volatiltiy, the payment agreement had a clause that stated that it could be called at any time per discretion of our side. He was the ONLY dStors team member getting paid while all others were working for future value of STORS tokens. As price of STEEM declined, the contract call clause was triggered and payment to Kali was adjusted to same as prior month but in STEEM and not USD. He found this very upsetting eventhough he had read, understood and agreed to and signed the contract.

Kali Ju signed a Limited Partnership which clearly, legally and contractually states majority % ownership. My side also wholly owns the Trade Marks of the dStors logo. The contract document is preserved as proof for my lawyers to utilize.

Formal Statement
As majority Partner, we demand that dStors and its associated parties cease and decease any and all business actions effective IMMEDIATELY!! Any person or group or entity having involvment through delegations must understand that such involvement to be null and void of any promises made in the past or present. dStors is wholly dissolved of any rights to conduct business without the authorization of the Majority Partner on record. This demand is legal, binding and yes, enforceable!!

These silly lifters at dStors have no idea of the concept of tort, contract law and courts. Instead they shamelessly use with impunity the stolen funds for their self enrichment. It's just a matter of time.

The Embezzlement
Kali Ju had given me the master keys to @dStors account so I can change them to mine and feel secure about putting my own funds into it. During the midst of a disagreement involving leadership roles and direction of the Partnership, he force recovered the account in 15 minutes, without my consent and stole the account along with my funds in it. It was premeditated, illegal and an outright theft.
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmbNozkHWHSnLvRjqpAiZkXouwPdMCtQBKxSdjCiKEBbsz/image.png]
Any claims that Kali Ju makes of our side taking anything from him is preposterous! First, he was the only one that gained financially. Second, we took our White Paper, our Business and Token models and rightfully, our delegations and divorced away from @dStors. They simply went back to where they were before our involvement....penniless and useless. This divorce, however was not in ownership; only that we setup a separate corporate entity devoid of Kali Ju and his team.

Minutes after the account theft, Kali Ju posted this message on Discord:
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmNjXuH5MJD81QGtvnadWg2jTAotoSmmz4QBSkVyoYEfdS/image.png]

He clearly has lied as all his actions have gone against his words.

The year of 2019 is the year of the Pig. However, for the dStors team, they have made it the year of thieves!!

I would strongly encourage anyone delegating to @dStors to reconsider and heed the above "Demand of Majority Partner"..Why? Your delegations are null & void .....more importantly, proven thieves can never be successful!! I have made the case with the KR community and they have responded with sweeping undelegations against @dStors and with more to come.

Three hours ago, I received the following from @practicalthoughts. Apparently he felt that receiving upvotes from stolen funds was beneath him. We have never interacted in the past but what an honorable person!
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmf2Kv6TxojT4Rs9avJa8GHFFbPrE24paAGiQbZnvzHFSm/image.png]

Are you too receiving upvotes from @dStors? Consider carefully then how those upvotes are tainted with embezzled SP. If I were you, I'd need a shower after such an upvote!

PS: I had reached out to Mr. @derangedvisions via discord to get his help to hopefully get the funds back. While I understand his position was to not get involved by stating that the matter was between Kali and myself, I felt that was a weak position to take at best and disingenuous at worst.
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmQon2XQbV1SsTMH6jzSEdgRigWw7NZhPGWMD5cDBBAU4q/image.png]

The weakness was in his recent trending post which was totally one sided, devoid of ANY of the above facts which he was FULLY aware of as I had informed him of them. Disingenuous because in full knowledge of the embezzlement, he has remained part of dStors and knowingly and approvingly gives upvotes using stolen funds.

As Majority Partner of dStors, and in the words of Donald Trump, @derangedvisions....YOU'RE FIRED!! You have no more right to harbor any involvement with dStors.

Aneil Patel (@aneilpatel), the Dev who required an upfront payment from our side and then failed to perform and then failed to return the upfront payment..and returned at the behest of Kali Ju....You're FIRED!! Your SwapSteem project will never be supported in light of your devious and furtive tricks!

@julianmnst; you're not even allowed to touch dStors with a 10 foot pole! You no longer have ANYTHING to do with dStors! You're FIRED!!

Final Statement
This incident and total betrayal of trust by Kali Ju could have occurred much later in the future when not thousands of dollars but perhaps millions could have been involved. The only positive I can see in this type of early adverse events in business partnerships is that it happened early.

The dCommerce team will plow ahead with honesty on our left hands and honor on our right hands to establish a one of a kind crypto token rewards based, peer to peer, borderless shopping platform that quickly and efficiently matches willing buyers with sellers.

More to come!

I don't like you much and I think your reaction to my post was beyond ridiculous, but I do totally agree it is not okay to steal from you. It does seem like that is what is happening.

Is it because your a girl, that you're getting all the upvotes...? lol

I feel like the only appropriate response to this would be:

“Thanks... I guess?”

Posted using Partiko iOS

Lol...@haejin sent you some love...awwww...fam is so cool...lol!

Peace.

I only know you by reputation. Some good mostly bad. After reading your comment your reputation good or bad has nothing to do with any of this. No one, no one should be ripped off. This whole situation is sad for me to hear. It needs to be resolved with honor and quickly.
Such a great adventure and to have this outcome

There you go. Big upvotes accepted...
https://steemit.com/dtube/@lucylin/mredvnka

good post wish you good luk

I feel sorry for your loss, it is terrible to be ripped off by people. I was also scammed here on steemit, a guy asked for help with his sister who had cancer and I lent him over $1000 - it turned out it was all a lie and I lost all the money I lent him. I was stupid for trying to help someone and put me into bad depression and lead me to stop working on steemit for around 5 months. Good luck in your dispute, I hope you are ok financially. love David

Gifts are not to be returned, as they were gifts, which is what you call them here.

>He sent notice on the birth of his second child and I sent gift.

(Singular, and the only reference to gift he made)

BTW, why would kaliji make demands before returning the funds, that seems to have escaped some people even though it is the most important part of this entire post and the post is clearly leading up to it and right after then it brings up that very question more or less but instead of incriminating him beyond a shadow of a doubt, people fascinatingly AVOID the fact that he's making demands and holding hostage funds until they are met.

Posted using Partiko Android

I noticed he asked for the negativity to stop, but not necessarily stating any funds would be returned.

Maybe ReRead the post where it Literally leads up to it and then Reveals it as the central point of the post.

https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmR6N8cC2rUAiJ21T2MKhbdYizwyMjQGuZNbuw99QwtshP/admission%20of%20it%20being%20Haejins.jpg

Do you see that?

also. The thief asked for the negativity to stop? If he wants it to stop he better return the funds ASAP, best to give the keys to the wallet back.

Posted using Partiko Android

It's fitting you chose the sound of a Sheop as your username.

You have proven yourself to be too moronic to converse with, so I'm only commenting for the DV. My goal is to bring the rep of this account into negative territory.

You address only the subjective portions of my comments, rather than the factual advice and points outlining @dstors legal responsibilities. This is a typical tactic for fake ass bitches whom are backed neither by facts nor basic common sense. You're a fake and your lame ass non-content proves that.

How many times have you avoided answering how is it not theft by the virtue of his own words when he made demands that he wanted haejin to do BEFORE he would return the Funds that haejin "left" in the account when the project hf?

keeponkeepingonevading

>BTW, why would kaliji make demands before returning the funds, that seems to have escaped some people even though it is the most important part

The reach of many to overlook the obvious is only outdone by the continuing maneuvering of kaliju. I had no time to respond properly this morning due to work to his post last night after I logged out. His entire stance continued to show guilt as well as reveal more of the character behind the man. The admission that really took me by surprise (most of his rant did, but this one was an admission he wasn't aware he was making) was when he said he was playing a part to trick Haejin. Makes one wonder when, if ever, a part isn't being played. A simpler way to say that is liar.

I appreciate your holding him to the fire. It is a pleasure watching you dissect the flaws, an art form most don't possess, and certainly not at the level you have perfected it. I get exasperated with people when I lay out the flaws and they continue pretending they don't see it, ignoring it as they continue to try derailing by shitting out as many words off topic as possible. Usually, as we saw here, slanderous words intended to incite anger at the actual injured party.

Thank you for speaking up. Pisses me off how many either hold their tongues on this, or worse, start making excuses.

That "the end" post I feel I egged him to http://www.cyberfresh.com.au/eshop/images/P/Leek.JPG was the last desperate attempt at "justifying" his theft I think. The audacity to wish "peace" to everyone at the end of that "leek" I could mock for days for my own self amusement and I'm glad you enjoy my not so nice commentary to him.

Posted using Partiko Android

Why did you fully trust your money to such a project?
No amount of letters will return them to you in crypto world.

Is that so? I've seen a few instances on the news where hackers returned tens of thousands of dollars in crypto and read over a few more in various blogs.

I want to know though, did you ask him why (regardless of the "you lost get over it" defeatist nonsense) to really get an answer back, as it genuinely interests you "why" he trusted someone? Suffice it to say, patronizing someone for their patronizing queery with a rhetorical question is it's own reward so any response is only icing on the cake.

Posted using Partiko Android

A lot of letters blaming someone for some actions. Where the main cause is that one trusted someone who didn’t deserve the trust.

Nope, it doesn't excuse theft. You try to blame the victim and make the actual thief into the victim, why? You say "haejin didn't deserve to be trusted" as a response to his funds being hijacked. Enough said.

Posted using Partiko Android

I don’t say that theft is not s theft, I dont blame anyone. Although if you were a professional investor who make living by allocating other people’s money and you failed by trusting someone not performing all nessesary checks, it’s your fault.

I’m just saying that when you put the root of problem outside of yourself you can’t find solution inside yourself.

Investing is 90% an ability to find people worth your trust.

You don't blame anyone? Then why ask demeaning and condescending and otherwise patronizing questions that basically say that it was his fault for trusting kaliji? What kind of question is "why did you trust him?" And the comment that you responded with to my remark on your question doesn't blame anyone for "trusting people that didn't deserve trust"?

The root of the problem isn't with haejin. You can keep implying again and again that he "failed by trusting someone not performing all nessesary checks, it’s your fault." or that it was his fault for trusting him, all you're doing is excusing the theft. You didn't acknowledge how and why you had absolutely no excuse for the condescending query, or for the other condescending remark about "a lot of letters" and now again for this nonsensical "the problem lies with oneself because otherwise how can you find a solution within yourself if you don't put the root of the problem within yourself" which you preface with the audaciously nonsense "I didn't pass blame on anyone, OR say theft isn't theft" and until you correct those things you'll simply be regarded by me as just another person without any decency or dignity.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I totally agree that the money should be returned, but I also say, when you partner with shady people you are now fiscally tied to shady people

On a personal level I will avoid both groups. On a steem level, I hope everyone is paying attention to who you are funding.

A good idea does not equal a team that can pull it off.

I feel a parody coming on.....lol

YES!

This post has received a 50.01 % upvote from @boomerang.

oh my! this is sad. i just hope that everything will be settled maturely and smoothly.

I looked through the 39 pages of steemd on the account @dstors, I saw no excessively large transfer, some transfers to promotion bots for post, but nothing that looked like any sort of theft. When a person Delegates SP they can undo that transaction when ever they want to.

I did not look at @kaliju's page. It seems to me in the two pieces you posted above in images that @kaliju has done the correct thing and sought out legal help, (good for him), and has asked as part of the "discovery" process facts and documents to the claims being made against him.

I see no evidence being put forth by you, nor Mr. Haejin about how this supposed theft from @dstors took place? Serious accusation in my book require proof. Post a document showing the loan and then the request for re-payment and then the denial of the request, then yes you can call it theft. Until I see proof of theft, I will not treat an individual as a thief. Call me foolish, but I still believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. Show the proof of the theft.

I have seen a number of post about this issue and accusations, what I have not seen in any of them is any proof of theft.

I agree - but people seem unwilling to be transparent about events...then speculation takes place over facts...

speculation, one of my favorite words of all time. You see a body in a parking space prone on the ground, is it dead, is it a woman, (you can't tell from your angle), is it a homeless person sleeping? A drunk passed out? We can all stand around and speculate till the cows come home, then the fun starts, poking it with a stick. A nice word speculation.

So why would he make demands before returning the funds in the account? facepalm of the year

Posted using Partiko Android

Why would there be no public memo about what the funds were for, why would he mention in his response (haejin's) that kali was being paid in steem not USD, why not show what the funds were to be used for, were they promised payments to kali, were they funds to be used to pay developers? There are a lot of reason why one person gives another person funds when they are a "Supposed" Investor. Investors lose money in a lot of investments. They also add money to help pay for work when they see a chance of reward. So far I haven't seen any evidence from either side what the funds were supposed to be for. Just because it looks like money was given, what were the terms of the money transfer? Why not show the document of what the funds were for? 90% of all wallet transfers have a memo attached to them especially when they are transfers of more than 5 steem, so why no memo on these transfers? I am not saying it does not belong to haejin, but it could just as well be kali's money also as payment as haejin went to great lengths to point out that kali was supposedly the only one being paid. All I am certain of is that I will never know the truth of it.

heajin posted some more details yesterday..not sure if makes things clearer...

it makes it clear that nothing was shown as to what the payments were for, nothing as to why he did not use a memo in the transfer of funds, a re-mention of his payment to kali ju in steem. and some respectable people being flagged for comments on his post, so yeah he made it about as clear as muddy water can get when someone has diarrhea in said muddy water.

Still the drama while different than last years with bernie is still drama, and something for some of the same players to make post make GIANT ASSED REWARDS from those post and claim once again woe is me.

Still I did have fun watching the bernie/hajien melt down last year at about this time. Do you think it will be a new New Years event, who will be the brunt of haejins rage next year.

haejin, bernie, and a few others - I wonder just how may are just the nucleus of steem, playing around....

They wouldn't be acting like they do - if they took steemit seriously....

Why would he make demands before returning funds? Za mostvepic facepalm.

Posted using Partiko Android

>A nice word speculation.

I prefer 'wobble'...
but I see what you mean...

> Post a document showing the loan and then the request for re-payment and then the denial of the request...

That and so much more, like a document that shows that we incrorporated and that it was leagally signed by me. I will leak the actual (lawdepot.com templates that he used) "partnership" papers that I did sign with him that stated our roles for the non existing company that was "soon to be incorporated". Glad it never happened as he completely took control of everything (by threatening to pull his support if i didn't agree with his ways) which caused a lot of questioning from @whatsup and others.

I talked to the law firm that we were supposed to work with and they know that I backed out before it was too late, in writing. He's good at throwing three paragraph essays together and lying. That's how most, just like I have, fall under his influence. He manipulates people, that's what he does. I played a fool and went along as much as I could, boiling on the inside, when he went from 20% ownership to wanting full ownership using pressure tactings and my reliance on his promised backing.

He couldn't offer the devs that came forward to help us any actual money and tried to play everyone on the team by offering them token stake as compensation that doesn't even exist.

He claims he has multiple companies and that he was charting for over 20 years but he's only registered his analytics business in September. I don't know how he got his @ranchorelaxo account but what I do know is that steemit is his main source of income that he probably doesn't even pay tax on.

He doesn't own anything about dStors and never will. I have timestamps all over the place, source code, logo design, all social networks, domain names, witnesses etc.
He wants to take any of it, let him, that'll be a rope my lawers will hang him by the ballsack with.

His wife has influnce in #kr community and the reason being is because most of them can't read English and so are clueless as to what is really going on. That's how delegators left - they were told a story and none bothered to reach out to me and ask what was going on. I'm not about to start chasing people, explaining my side. It's useless.

He shitted all over the dstors account by using it to reply to people with agression, got pissed off at me for correcting him and started dcommerce. One must be a fool thinking that something that has a name like dcommerce can even be trademarked/inc'd or succeed as a platform. But that's besides the point. Point is, he must show proof, on paper, with my consent in signature and an official statement of him leaving the partnership before starting dcommerce and violating all dev agreements and NDA's in the process that were signed by everyone on the team.

Haejin: A lying ass amateur who claims to be a pro can continue with dcommerce fooling people. I can go on and on, but the proof of all that I speak of is in the pudding. And I might just share it for fun if this silly time wasting continues. Why are you so desperate to destroy a guy with an empty wallet, if you're so sure Mr. Millionaire? Save your breath and keyboard banging and talk to my lawyer who was laughing his ass off the other day while going over our "papers". Pfft!

I'm now in the middle of all this shit and it's all your negative energy that draws it. You're not God as you told me you believe to be. Deal with it.

You recovered the account that he funded and outlined "how" you would return it back. You stole his money.

Posted using Partiko Android

>I will leak

leek away.

>He couldn't offer the devs that came forward to help us any actual money and tried to play everyone on the team by offering them token stake as compensation that doesn't even exist.

If all the generosity he's claimed to have shown you is true I can see why you didn't bother to say that it wasn't and instead supported his own disclosure of how the devs were going to be compensated trying to make him into some kind of exploitationist. If that is so, it's only indicative of what you are because you project your failuires onto him.

He seems to be the one that put forward most if not all the actual work while you got paid for SITTING PRETTY ON AN IDEA YOU FLEABAG.

>He claims he has multiple companies and that he was charting for over 20 years but he's only registered his analytics business in September. I don't know how he got his @ranchorelaxo account but what I do know is that steemit is his main source of income that he probably doesn't even pay tax on.

lolol.

First, you wanna make him seem destitute or incompetent by his own alleged claims somehow conflicted with when he started a company you're aware of, but you go on right ahead and deflate that pissposh by alleging that he's also @ranchorelaxo which is a multimillion account, only to say that you know his main source of income is steem, which obviously is a logic loop: if he funded a multimillion account in steem, how did he earn that and why would he make an investment he allegedly made his main source of income. Lol also because he's not who you think he is.

>He doesn't own anything about dStors and never will. I have timestamps all over the place, source code, logo design, all social networks, domain names, witnesses etc.
He wants to take any of it, let him, that'll be a rope my lawers will hang him by the ballsack with.

Lolol you don't have any lawyers, nor any money do you, and all those timespams still didn't help when they left with everything minus the funds that you are holding hostage in the @dstupid account.

>Haejin: A lying ass amateur who claims to be a pro can continue with dcommerce fooling people. I can go on and on, but the proof of all that I speak of is in the pudding. And I might just share it for fun if this silly time wasting continues. Why are you so desperate to destroy a guy with an empty wallet, if you're so sure Mr. Millionaire? Save your breath and keyboard banging and talk to my lawyer who was laughing his ass off the other day while going over our "papers". Pfft!

You admit to being broke and want to know why he's asking for the funds you took back.

I
D
I
O
T

Posted using Partiko Android

And who are you?

It's irrelevant isn't it, why do you want to know is what matters even more than who I am.

Posted using Partiko Android

Great, balanced and very mature reply @bashadow

We should have Court DApp with lawyers so thing like this wouldn't happen. Its like a one time smart contract, if something like this happen the money will be returned to those involved. Which would include fee of course.

you must have been close and trusting with each other before. may you settle this issue as soon as possible as it will surely be stressful for all parties involved. even your spectators.

I'm more curious about how dstors ever want to get back its reputation after all that drama here. Is it still worth investing? Will they ever get back on there feet and deliver a product? I don't care about personal disputes this is non of my business!

Posted using Partiko Android

@dsteals

Posted using Partiko Android

Wow, this is pretty interesting. I had delegated some SP to them a couple of weeks ago, but then the things started happening and the way that they were answering legitimate questions from users really turned me off. I also noticed that they were using the delegations that had been given to them to upvote their own posts at 100%. I can probably understand the idea behind that, but I still found it a little disturbing. Needless to say, I ended up quickly pulling my delegation and now seeing this I am pretty glad I did. Thanks for speaking up about this. I don't have much interaction with @haejin given how small I am, but it only seems right that they return the funds if the project is not moving forward the way it was originally intended or planned.

excellent!

Hello everyone!

cool!

Fantastic!

Fantastic!

cool!

cool!

Nice!

Your evidence shown for the amount are assumptions and you admit this, but haijins comment above calls them gifts. Gifts are not to be returned and not returning them is not theft.

This whole issue is very unprofessional, which is how haijin is, so the blame lies on his lap in my book.

DStors needs to continue and Haijin needs to come up with his own idea, rather than stealing another's. Haijin is the thief here and hurtful to the Steemit Platform.

These silly lifters at dStors have no idea of the concept of tort, contract law and courts. Instead they shamelessly use with impunity the stolen funds for their self enrichment. It's just a matter of time.

Then the details.

The Embezzlement
Kali Ju had given me the master keys to @dStors account so I can change them to mine and feel secure about putting my own funds into it. During the midst of a disagreement involving leadership roles and direction of the Partnership, he force recovered the account in 15 minutes, without my consent and stole the account along with my funds in it. It was premeditated, illegal and an outright theft.

So haejin is initially by your version, claiming the funds he placed in the dstors account after he was given the master key and changed it, were gifts and he wasn't referencing to

Back in late Summer, Kali Ju posted for help to pay for his medical bills; I responded and sent help. He approached me for dStors Witness vote and I helped. He sent notice on the birth of his second child and I sent gift.

The only gift he referenced about the birth gift, instead you claim he's lying about everything else but he's telling the truth about the funds he placed in the account as gifts because thats what he calked gifts.

I think either you didn't read or you enjoy making a whackjob out of yourself.

Let me ask you what the post already asked:

Why would someone returrn something if it's theirs?

O yeah, duh, they don't think they deserve, or otherwise refuse and return the gift. How grand of them.

Posted using Partiko Android

My issue is the amount claimed by the author and the evidence given for the amount. What is gift, investment, loan, donation. So, the agreed upon intent for the funds has not been proven by either side.

Gifts, donations or investments don't necessarily need to be returned and the author himself said that not only is the amount given an assumption, but so are the accounts they were sent from as actually being hiejins, but there was no information given about the intent of those funds.

It's quite unethical to invest then think that just because you disagree with the path the project you invested was taking that you can just take your full investment back, much of which was probably already spent and then spin off essentially stealing another's idea.

It's common knowledge that the idea was pretty much born before hiejin was involved. As for the whitepaper, writing down another's idea in your hand does not make it yours. It does require compensation, but we know hiejin was using the Dstors account to comment and vote, so if he upvoted his own comments and posts with an account with high SP, then he also made money from his investment and this may be enough.

What I do know is, hiejin is greedy, possesses questionable character and rapes the rewards pool for self gain and helps to make Steemit less attractive to new user's essentially hurting Steemit and doesn't care, because it benefits him. Then starts another huge war, which is/will devalue the platform even more. All while posting crap content enmasse, which he self votes with multiple accounts. Because of this, his opponents receive the benefit of the doubt from me.

Not one post yet in this topic has shown any hard proof, just accusations and slander, which is the tactic of a liar. All to defame one idea, so his can go forward with his own without the actual creators, which also goes in the opponents favor.

This needs to stop, especially from 3rd party user's and the two direct parties need to work in private and within the law to settle this. If it continues to be conjecture, slander and pure propaganda, then it will only prove it to be lies.

Why did I add my two cents? Because unless this shit changes, Steemit is dead, which I believe is already the case and won't bless Steemit with my content. New and better platforms are out with many more coming out, so I'm no longer silenced by my need for a higher rep. By not using Steemit to create income I've been freed from the massive censorship practiced here by the Oligarchy, in which hiejin is one. Keep up the bullshit and all your revenue stream will fade as well.

It's blatant that the funds were taken by forced account recovery. He made demands that he wanted meet before returning the funds (after powering down). Where do you see "investment, gift loan donation"?

Why does he need to "prove the intention" of funds that he placed in a wallet he was locked out of after the account was force recovered?

Slander is calling haejin a liar. Propaganda and Lying is amounting to claiming haejin said those funds were a gift. You conveniently didn't answer either why he would return something that was his or acknowledging the grave error of reading by claiming repeatedly that haejin called the embezzled funds gifts.

How many times will you evade it? Every single time it seems.

Posted using Partiko Android

Maybe he will learn the importance of ettiquette when using a business account. I'll bet that @haejin jumped the gun and became mad the trust bestowed upon him had vanished, because he lacked the professional demeaner needed to deal with prospective customers and investors.

Then instead of opening dialog, like he should have, he went on the defensive from being butthurt, because his ego couldn't handle the necessary disciplinary action against him.

Whenever one takes a beef public, acting rashly and without showing the hard proof of the actual numbers it is because the proof doesn't exist and they are lying and/or they didn't document anything as they should have.

Where's the actual receipts, descriptions of the intent of each individual transfer and the contracts with the signature of the recipients? Without this @haejin is shit out of luck. A screenshot of the transfers are worthless if there was no memo attached documenting the intent. Hell, much of that could have been used to pay his own developer for all we know. What inside knowledge do you possess? Heresay is not relevent.

In closing, I will not state matter of factly that he isnt owed anything. I have never said this and actually mentioned straight off he may be due payment for some of his accomplishments, like drawing up the whitepaper.

You are so intent on winning, rather than being rational that you have only been on the attack. You should be somewhere in the middle and asking for more info which I have done with my examples.

Also, even if he is owed funds, but this needs to go to court to settle, then @dstors should put the funds in an escrow account until the judgement is made. Legally, as long as the funds are available to disperse as necessary, @dstors doesn't need to release any funds to @haejin and it's not in their best interest to do so.

As long as @haejin continues to try this topic in the court of public opinion, he is showing his hand and it's probably because he doesn't have any legal ground to stand on.

>Maybe he will learn the importance of ettiquette when using a business account. I'll bet that @haejin jumped the gun and became mad the trust bestowed upon him had vanished, because he lacked the professional demeaner needed to deal with prospective customers and investors.
>
>Then instead of opening dialog, like he should have, he went on the defensive from being butthurt, because his ego couldn't handle the necessary disciplinary action against him.
>
>Whenever one takes a beef public, acting rashly and without showing the hard proof of the actual numbers it is because the proof doesn't exist and they are lying and/or they didn't document anything as they should have.

None of that makes theft excusable. The thief indicated clearly the funds weren't his and made promises to return them. Good job with the whackjob story you seemingly apear to need so you can justify the act as not theft, because without za papers zere are no fundz, no admission, no corroborated evidence on the chain for all to see.

>Where's the actual receipts, descriptions of the intent of each individual transfer and the contracts with the signature of the recipients? Without this @haejin is shit out of luck. A screenshot of the transfers are worthless if there was no memo attached documenting the intent. Hell, much of that could have been used to pay his own developer for all we know. What inside knowledge do you possess? Heresay is not relevent.

Hell he could be talking about returning his own funds as payment for haejin doing all his demands, I've cracked it!

>In closing, I will not state matter of factly that he isnt owed anything. I have never said this and actually mentioned straight off he may be due payment for some of his accomplishments, like drawing up the whitepaper.

You called him a thief. You also called him a liar, not outright but repeatedly by calling his testimony heresay, and implicitly each time you made indication of duplicity, deviousness, and deceit on his behalf.

>You are so intent on winning, rather than being rational that you have only been on the attack. You should be somewhere in the middle and asking for more info which I have done with my examples.

You asked irrational and nonsensical questions, after you hurled accusations, called people all maner of things and you initiated all of it with false, confused claims.

>Also, even if he is owed funds, but this needs to go to court to settle, then @dstors should put the funds in an escrow account until the judgement is made. Legally, as long as the funds are available to disperse as necessary, @dstors doesn't need to release any funds to @haejin and it's not in their best interest to do so.

You're an idiot. Holding the funds hostage and taking this to court as to dispute who owns the funds when it is clear as day by admission on the blockchain, corroborated and evidenced also on the blockchain is indicative you are an idiot if you honestly believe ANYTHING more needs to be presented to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the funds belong to haejin and the best course is to return them asap.

>As long as @haejin continues to try this topic in the court of public opinion, he is showing his hand and it's probably because he doesn't have any legal ground to stand on.

Of couse, who would have thought you can have arbitration without legal action, preposterous, he must not have any legal grounds to stand on, otherwise he'd go to court.

suchafuckingidiot #businessetiquette

It's fitting you chose the sound of a Sheop as your username.

You have proven yourself to be too moronic to converse with, so I'm only commenting for the DV. My goal is to bring the rep of this account into negative territory.

You address only the subjective portions of my comments, rather than the factual advice and points outlining @dstors legal responsibilities. This is a typical tactic for fake ass bitches whom are backed neither by facts nor basic common sense. You're a fake and your lame ass non-content proves that.

Instead of specifying anything relevant or explaining yourself for the numerous slanderous lies and mistakes and answering the simple question you talk about my username, claim I proved to be too moronic to converse with, claim you're only doing it for the downvote, then go on ahead and address me and try to claim that I'm fake because I'm not backed by facts or common sense.

So why did he say that he would return the funds that he left in the wallet when it hardforked and is him saying that, and haejin corroborating it, not only the thiefs demands, not facts, and it is not common sense that: it's not a loan, not a Gift which you claimed he claimed and claimed that you were not "properly", in so many words, corrected about, and it's not kali's money as "investment" when he's clear as day about THE FUNDS NOT BEING HIS.

I'm fake though says the idiot who claims he responded ONLY to get downvotes, stoopid ass reverse psychology or what, since you wasted your time trying AGAIN to avoid answering the question or acknowledging how obnoxious and outright confused you were, let alone to the last effort at painting youself into a corner/digging the proverbial hole before this "You're superficial you fake" idiocy^2 where you said that he probably doesn't have "legal grounds" to stand on, and he should persue that route. Idiot.

If you don't have an argument, resort to basic bitch shit like claiming I didn't focus on your "factual advice".

@haejin, downvoting while not correcting my statement, which uses your own words is cowardly and censorship, not exercising your freedom of speech.

Curation is never censorship. Nobody owes you a correction, if you cannot see that your error is not valued by him and it's not censorship or cowardly then you might find the internet way too offensive, just saying. He has as much of a right to correct as he does to curate, freedom of expression.

Posted using Partiko Android

Lol I see, you are a fake ass crony riding his jock, because you're a follower looking for a whale upvote..the fact that you are attempting to speak for him and defend him is proof enough. SMMFH you are the typical fake that gives Steemit a bad name...Fuck off

I can speak for what is right instead of being like you when you speak to defend a thief and instead of admitting mistakes or answering to simple questions you think calling me names will redeem any of your nonsense so far, it most certainly won't, keep defending the thief, for whatever reason :).

Posted using Partiko Android

You don't know the details, so have no idea what's right or wrong.

It's fitting you chose the sound of a Sheop as your username.

You have proven yourself to be too moronic to converse with, so I'm only commenting for the DV. My goal is to bring the rep of this account into negative territory.

You address only the subjective portions of my comments, rather than the factual advice and points outlining @dstors legal responsibilities. This is a typical tactic for fake ass bitches whom are backed neither by facts nor basic common sense. You're a fake and your lame ass non-content proves that.

The details of what?

He made demands to return funds that weren't his.

You whackjob.

Calling people liars and failing at reading. Calling curation censorship, and feeling entitled to be corrrected by certain people, despite being corrected but not acknowledging it, that's what I saw from you, they certainly fare more as facts than what you call fact.

Posted using Partiko Android

Assumptions and heresay without definitive facts are not corrections.

You've been corrected regarding what Haejin called Gifts. You've disregarded the main issue repeatedly: why did he make promise to return funds that he indicated are not his and we have the corresponding/corroborated testimony from the other party in form of the log for the forced account recovery. You're a fucking whackjob though and demonstrated so by your nonsensical accusations and insinuating bullshit you've chosen again and again to respond with in weaselly attempts at avoiding the obvious to defend a thief.

Posted using Partiko Android

It's fitting you chose the sound of a Sheop as your username.

You have proven yourself to be too moronic to converse with, so I'm only commenting for the DV. My goal is to bring the rep of this account into negative territory.

You address only the subjective portions of my comments, rather than the factual advice and points outlining @dstors legal responsibilities. This is a typical tactic for fake ass bitches whom are backed neither by facts nor basic common sense. You're a fake and your lame ass non-content proves that.

Yeah, spam away And we can see you're motivated ONLY to cause drama and spread shit.

You seem to have a bad habit of putting words in other's mouths. You've done this on both sides. I never outright called anyone a liar. I mentioned one's reputation and character can make them more likely to be the one lying. There's a difference and I bet you know that, but think you are scoring points and will try to win anyway possible and have no issue getting dirty.

You called him "the thief here". No you didn't OUTRIGHT call him a liar. facepalm. I'm getting dirty though, says the one who believes he's right at all when you've literally come with completely confused take on gifts and on top slung accusations based on pure speculation and consistently avoided the main issue which I've asked you repeatedly.

It's amusing to watch you try and wrangle anything and everything to justify those accusations and evasions including calling me names and throwing, get ready for it, you'll never guess, shade on me for doing nothing comparable to how you've entered and continjed thus far. (i win?, because this is about scoring points and playing games).

Posted using Partiko Android

It's fitting you chose the sound of a Sheop as your username.

You have proven yourself to be too moronic to converse with, so I'm only commenting for the DV. My goal is to bring the rep of this account into negative territory.

You address only the subjective portions of my comments, rather than the factual advice and points outlining @dstors legal responsibilities. This is a typical tactic for fake ass bitches whom are backed neither by facts nor basic common sense. You're a fake and your lame ass non-content proves that.

You spammed the same nonsense instead of demonstrating that you're not a complete douche.

@dstors is a failed venture until some credibility restored

https://steemit.com/dstors/@kaliju/introducing-dstors-to-haejin-and-him-getting-involved-chat-log-from-day-1-

Silence THIEF!
Return the embezzled funds you took by forced recovery of @dstors account!
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmQ58X3XR9mMkpnM7dV9Z3huBTuF22HKjTGYcw4wd5x15A/image.png]

Cannot believe you think what you did was "being real". Maybe being really cluless, maybe being a real douchebag or a real thief, but certainly not someone that Tupac was talking about. You close with

Peace to all and may everyone's dreams come true.

You're a fake. Peace doesn't mean steal. You cannot have peace if you're a thief, but keep dreaming that for 2019 though see how far along you get.

Posted using Partiko Android

I only had time for a quick perusal before work, and many things bothered me. I see most of those points were addressed on the thread by Haejin and Whatsup. I see you deleted the OP and posted differently since, so I won't beat a dead horse. The only thing I will comment on it (since you shared the link here) was your admission to playing a part with Haejin. I was shocked to see you dig yourself deeper with that one, as it makes any rational person wonder how often you are or are not playing roles.

I see you have initiated a power down, and hope this is because you are going to give him his money back.

And yet the liquid Steem just sits there.

Yeah, that would be helpful to show good intent if he sent it back. He is still passing out upvotes with your SP and getting more delegations too I notice.

Wonder how many sending in delegations or keeping the ones they placed already have protested in the past over your using your stake (investment) for higher returns, using the incredible comparison to rape? Hypocrites and snakes all through this place, screaming "what about the community" when they think they might lose out on a few fractions of a Steem due to investors using their stake, but once the profit is in their favor, time to turn a blind eye or worse, push out irrational defense that ignores the clear proof of theft.

Sorry they appear to be digging in for the long haul with the support of selfish members of the community. I can imagine how livid you must be at such betrayal, especially after reading the gestures you made to him while he was down on his luck, before you came on and demonstrated how one would put together such a project.

When things unraveled, before the intent of theft was known, I knew it was your input that was behind the vision. His capabilities were demonstrated with steemfleamarket. I will still hold out hope he decides to do right by you, and the reason for the power down is to return your money.

Congratulations @practicalthought!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:

• Comments - Ranked 3 with 96 comments
• Pending payout - Ranked 1 with $ 283,05

This was very telling of how shady some projects can definitely be taken off the rails.

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Youre all talking about theft and the right thing to do..
But didnt @haejin rape and steal from the Reward Pool? Was that the right thing to do?

“Thieves cant be successful. "

Posted using Partiko Android

No, Haejin didn't rape a mathematical formula that was invented and created to bring investments such as his to the chain in the hopes of creating scarcity so all of our holdings would be more valuable. Which in turn would allow for easier funding by stakeholders for projects.

In fact, I am pretty sure that anyone who has had the misfortune of actually being raped would find the comparison to be more distasteful than I do. I do not understand why the anger for this scenario is directed at those investors who are pulled here with this math formula as an incentive, and not directed instead to the creators/voters of the math formula. While I personally do not self vote a lot, and give (tithe) to a worthy project here does not mean I am angry because an investor wants a return on their investment. I stay out of that battle and worry about my interest as I have no power to affect what the top stakeholders decide the math will be, and as I said, I believe that the value of Steem is directly tied to those willing to invest in the chain.

Having said that, I find it incredible that on top your ability to equate the seeking of top return on ones investment with the physical violation of rape, you then move forward using this absurd comparison as justification that he now "deserves" to be stolen from.

You just can't make this shit up.

I came here and the pool was raped because. Folks invested in the wrong moment, made minus and then got greedy..
Didnt accept the bear market and tried to counter it throught selfupvotes, a lot of them..

And I can see exactly this Action since I joined...

Selfvoters.

Dont you get that these actions damage the complete steem eco system?
And Proof of brain can also be just deleted.
We have Haejin, He knows who should deserve a big Payout.
That's like a big joke..

And now he fucked his own investment even more up, because he trusted someone to give him coins..

Sorry that's not my Problem.
If I was that dumb the dude who got my money wouldnt give It back neither.
And even more not if he knew that I fucked with the whole System, which other people here like..

I could now continue informing for n^2
I bet Haejin Was one of the fat whales who wanted n^2 to be changed.

So where am I not adressing the right person?

>and not directed instead to the creators/voters of the math formula.

And why do you think stealing from Haejin is not okay while stealing from the reward pool every god damn day is okay??

Plus:
Haejin is flagging me.. lol

Nice investigation dude, we Steemians have to
hold blockchain businesses accountable, and
putting the truth out is the best way to do that!

Thanks. This is jacked, and it is worrisome to me just how many are still backing the theft with excuses, sending in delegations as they rake in using the theft as a bid bot. I haven't responded yet but someone earlier actually put forth the idea it is ok to steal from Haejin because he deserves it for profiting from his investment (I cleaned up the verbiage).

Shake my damn head at the snakes willing to be blind or defend, to earn a few extra Steem or because they do mental somersaults comparing someone profiting from their investment via the reward pool to rape. Of course, to get upset with those who created the math for said pool are never blamed, only those who bring their investment in to use it.

Sorry for rambling, and thanks for the kind words. I appreciate those of you who see this for what it Clearly is and will speak up that this is wrong.

He needs to get his money back. End of story.

1 down vote wow not what I expected lol

Posted using Partiko Android

I probably should stay out of this, but, truth needs to be told from an objective standpoint where cooler heads should prevail.

I respect @practicalthought, @bashadow, @barski and consider @kaliju a friend as well.

Now, before anyone jumped on me, please know that I have been unfairly vilified and called a manipulator (a thief) by someone who I thought I was helping over 18 weeks when I was still new and naive.

I am an investor and came on here just for curiosity. To have been accused of "stealing", even if it were true, a few steems on behalf of others - distorting the payout for those new members that I tried to help while giving out over 50 steem over the same time was laughable.

At recent prices, 100 steem is less than $40. In my real job, I make 100 times after taxes in two weeks equaling 10,000 steem.

Why do I say that? It's a matter of perspective.

What I have learned is that justice is not possible here.

In real life, it is also difficult and one must not rely on popular opinion.

With due respect, a few here wanted to show off their ability to judge and take sides.

I would suggest that all should watch this video -

Don't Talk to the Police ❗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

source

Don't Talk to the Police
2,499,148 views

> Regent University School of Law
Published on Mar 20, 2012

> Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials. Download his article on the topic at https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1998119

Professor James Duane talked about the top reasons for his recommendation -

Don't Talk to the Police ❗

• If you are innocent
• if you are guilty
• if ...

He talked about the common misconceptions of the 5th Amendment and cite real criminal cases to support his recommendation.

Then, officer George Bruch of Virginia Beach Police Department talked about his experiences and viewpoints.

But, IF I must make a judgment, I'll start by asking questions although both parties are advised just now.

kaliju is, admittedly by both, in need financially and not business savy.
haejin is clearly one with assets, money, and wealth, and much more business experience.

So, what they say and do must be assessed with that in mind.

If kaliju's story is 100% true, I'll fault him for -
- bad judgment
- bad manners
- unprofessional presentation of his arguments

In business, I'll never get in such a lopsided business "partnership" with someone of less than perfect reputation. I don't use the "s" word, but that would have been my verdict even IF his story is 100%.

Now, as for haejin, he should have know better, much better, and perhaps he did.

I worked in IT and as contractors and more than once, I had to front travel expenses of thousands of U$D (often more than U$D 6,000) and had to wait months to be paid and expenses reimbursed. The most recent was "you should have know that we pay all contractors 90 days after invoiced" - something that no one told me in any way.

And, they would not do it one day sooner than the 90 days after I repeatedly requested. I was broke then.

So, at the very least, haejin was not kind or professional with the developers.

I came here after reading haejin's post stating his position.
In most businesses, if not all, all must sign NDA. It would prevent any negative comments from the employer and from the employee as well as partners cannot legally criticize each other.

haejin must know that. Besides, IF I had the law on my side and I had the time and finances, I'll just call my lawyer and fire them all and take them all to court.

I'll petition the court to freeze all assets and documents.
Leaving dstors and starting another company is not indicative of strong legal positions.
IF I were in the right and have strong business knowledge, I would never have gotten into a pubic display of animosity.

Attacking a business partner and "firing" (after the fact) the developers would not win over any potential jurors, not me anyway.

So, the calmer one and the cooler head is who I'll tend to believe. Although, IF I were in kaliju's shoes, I would have been angry as well.

One thing that really pushed me over to was how the strong hand, financially, bully disenting steemians by downvoting their comments.

Worse yet, he had the wife do his dirty work.

Yes, I might get downvoted now, but, I no longer care about my reputation or what the downvotes might take away from me.

In the real world, saying what haejin said gets him sued.

However, here, your true identity is protected. And, by the same reason, don't believe anyone by the "reputation" - they are and can be bought.

Lastly, why shame anyone? haejin shamed delegators which he was one himself!

Oh, shame those who were too busy with real life? classy! NOT❗

• leaving dstors
• start a copy with a generic name
• don't pay developers with real $
• breaking NDA
• mocking developers
• mocking delegators
• having wife do your dirty work

hmmm ...

==================
You should ALL check the laws out!

https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/US_Internet_Law/Defamation

========

https://www.dlgteam.com/facebook-internet-defamation-lawsuit/

> ### Proving Internet Defamation
> You must meet the burden of proof to win a defamation lawsuit, as you do most personal injury cases. Here’s what you’ll need to prove:
> - The statement was worded as a fact, but it was false. A person can say that they don’t like a restaurant (an opinion), but they can’t say the restaurant management are thieves (stated as a fact, but can be disputed).
> - A third party publishes the statement online. Calling someone a thief in a conversation or in a private email isn’t defamation. Saying it in a Facebook post is a different story.
> - The statement was made intentionally. In legal speak, we say a person “did know, or should have known, that the statement was false.”
> - The statement led to damages. You must prove that the statement led to tangible losses, such as lost business or income.

I have no knowledge of the accusations you mentioned against you. Regarding this post I made almost 3 weeks ago, I would ask you read through very carefully again. I will say this and hope it can help you understand.

They fell apart almost 4 weeks ago. At that time, believing in the integrity of @kaliju I made a post in his defense, while wishing both parties or any others who could pull this off my well wishes. At that time, despite knowing that the progress in vision belonged in many ways with @haejin, I supported the man who I thought had honor at that time despite my feeling the true success would come from the entity now known as Dcommerce.

Over the next week I begin seeing @haejin posting he wanted his Steem back. I still remained quiet. Until I saw the condescending post from @kaliju where he admits he has haejins money. I would ask you to look at the second screen shot in my post where he lists conditions that he might "consider" giving him his Steem back.

Kaliju admits the Steem belongs to Haejin. But somehow he believes that he is entitled to either keep it or receive monthly payments of 2k, despite the fact they split. Now, according to Kaliju, the split came about when he told Haejin that his responses to questions under the Dstors account were unacceptable. It appears to me that Haejin acknowledged this irreconcilable difference, and being the financial backer with the business know how, left and Kaliju was left with a gift. A gift of lots of delegation, new ideas gleaned from his association with a business man and at this point, his integrity still intact. An integrity he chose to disregard when his need to strike at Haejin led him to the decision that he would take the account back and keep the Steem.

It has been 17 days since I wrote this post. He has begun powering down, yet not one transfer has still been made of the funds back to Haejins account. I noted in my post, it was late last spring the valuation of the Steem in question would have been over 80,000.00. He is lucky that so far all he has dealt with has been down voting wrath from Haejin and his wife. Especially since he seems to denigrate them in several of them, sharing their private conversations with us. I imagine at some point he will find himself explaining this to law enforcement if he doesn't do the right thing. Which will help set precedent for using courts and law enforcement to seek justice over international boundaries. All so avoidable if he had treasured the high regard many of us held him in, and initiated the return of the Steem immediately. The Steem needs returned, and am shocked this isn't obvious to everyone.

It seems everyone claims that s/he knows the truth except me.

I don't think this is the place to present anyone's case.

But, by applying common sense and business and legal knowledge, I believe that if any party is in the right, s/he would go get a lawyer and not publicize this at all and made no comments.

I'll hold the party that has more business knowledge and financial strength to that expectation.

That's my assessment.

He said/she said = hearsay do not stand up in a court of law.

Besides, do you know who actually typed a post - any post? Can you prove it?

>It seems everyone claims that s/he knows the truth except me.

As I said in the post, and my reply to you, I know what Kaliju said he did and what I base my statements on are what he said. No he said she said, both parties agree in public statements that he has the others money. Not sure why you refuse to see what both parties have stated. And yes, I know Kaliju typed the screenshot I shared as it came straight from his post. If you cared to look you can see for yourself.

Not sure what your aiming to do here really. I think we all pretty much know that he is keeping the money unless @haejin gets the court and police involved at this point. If you wish to defend what has been done, that is your prerogative. Just as it is mine to find it despicable that anyone can do this, and that people can justify it.

If someone ripped me off like this, not only would I seek legal recourse, I would make sure that everyone in the community was aware of it as well. Why would anyone protect the reputation of someone who steals from them?

I don't see that it is beneficial for the two of us to continue discussing this. I collected my entire outlook on this from Kaliju's words, and will not be swayed.

We, in the USA, is still a nation of laws - "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.

Until anyone had been proven guilty in a court of law, they should all refrain from libelous accusations!

Anyone calling anyone else, explicitly or implicitly, of stealing without such legal status / judgment - is libelous.

> If someone ripped me off like this, not only would I seek legal recourse,

• yes!

> I would make sure that everyone in the community was aware of it as well.

• absolutely not!

Sad for me

> Sad for me

> 4 + 4 steem on this and finish the cooperation

I don't understand ...

I'll explain what it is. It was painful for me to read your post and write my answer to you. But, I will try to state my idea in an accessible way. As you see, I didn’t jump at you, as you have previously accused all who have a comment on your conclusion.

First, I also did not see who, where and when called you a thief.

You are an investor, investors have been warned that earnings on delegations are not entirely correct in the moral sense of the word, delegations should be recalled, and @haejin should get his money back.

The second, and maybe this is the first, there is not much difference, you reproached me for supporting me within the community. You know how I feel about money, you should be ashamed. You sent me and the @roninrelax blog two payments on 4 Steem, I returned them to you. I felt that I don’t need to put this money into circulation, I put it off now, I returned it to you. 8 Steem on your wallet. This is the last money I took from you. I stop working with the community #ccc.

Come on. When you and the community accepted my voices, did Heigen also be a villain for you? You could not see that the growth of my SP is directly related to the @haejin vote. I tried to be obligatory in relation to all members of the community, you know this well. I repeat, you reproached me with your support, Hadzhin, did not reproach me when I began to give votes that I gave earlier, to him, I began to give to the ссс community.

I began to earn four times less than the SP on curation, but I wanted to support people from the community, and you, including.

Enough about me.

You accused my friend of forcing his spouse @starjuno to participate in something. This suggests that you do not know the simple principles, the husband and wife should be one. It would be strange if the wife and husband did not find solasiya in solving some issues.

The person whom you called your friend, holds the money of others and extorts, that he would continue to pay wages. This is soliciting pure water.

I do not know what is worse, steal, or extort. And that, and that, disgusting.

He was told, give someone else's.

You, having not understood, in the essence of the question, have said nasty things to those who did not mention, never, your name during this trial.

For me, it is strange, I try to stay away from people with a strange attitude towards life and towards other people.

You have a simple example of how your friend should act. When you, without my knowledge, sent me a loan and wrote that I can not return the loan to you, if, all of a sudden, I have problems with it. What did I do? I returned you all the money the same day. The amount was not the smallest by local standards.

My moral principles do not allow me to maintain a warm relationship with a person who calls a friend who is the enemy of my friend.

Both of us, adults, we have our own principles, I will not give up my principles.

And also, where did you get the idea that you have the moral right to point out an error in the methods of conducting business, and contractual relations and bring accusations to the main investor? Did you do something to prevent this situation from happening?

Thank you for telling me all this. I am glad that it came out.

It's sad that anyone would harbor and bottle up ill feelings based or erroneous information and viewpoints for so long - you are the second one that I tried to be friends here only to have such a negative emotional eruption - so sad is mine to say.

I do not owe you an explanation sir. You are wrong in several statements and I do not expect you to understand.

> First, I also did not see who, where and when called you a thief.

I did not say that about me and don't know where you get that idea?

> you reproached me for supporting me within the community. You know how I feel about money, you should be ashamed.

That is total nonsense and not worthy of a rebuttal.

> re·proach
/rəˈprōCH/
verb
1. address (someone) in such a way as to express disapproval or disappointment.
"“You know that isn't true,” he reproached her"
noun
1. the expression of disapproval or disappointment.
"he gave her a look of reproach"

> You sent me and the @roninrelax blog two payments on 4 Steem

That was for supporting #ccc contests not payments for anything. I might have also given them as Christmas or Thanksgiving gifts - don't remember which of these three as I have been giving to many on many occassions.

> I began to earn four times less than the SP on curation, but I wanted to support people from the community, and you, including.

The #ccc community is not mine and I do not represent the members who can come one day and gone the next.

BTW, I don't know that @roninrelax and you are one. Where is he now?

I don't think I or the #ccc community owe you anything nor will we miss you.

As a Christian, I am commanded to love my enemies; do not judge less I'll be judged [first], so - I hold on to "innocent until proven guilty".

Further, unforgiveness is a mortal sin. Yes, it is. So, it is good to not hold ill feelings in until it explodes.

God bless you all, friends or foes alike.

And the thief seals his theft:
[IMAGE: https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmQ58X3XR9mMkpnM7dV9Z3huBTuF22HKjTGYcw4wd5x15A/image.png]

I'm sorry to see he chose to keep it. While it became obvious after the first power down and he still hadn't sent that back to you, I was hopeful that he realized that many here saw through his attempts at justification to be a thief.

I still get people showing up on this thread defending him and attacking you, as though it is ok since they don't like you. Lowlife scumbags with no moral compass.

I am guessing that kaliju decided that he was incapable of building a viable business without you doing the work, and that he would profit most from stealing your money since he isn't cut out for business. I'm sorry that you got betrayed after your kindness to him. Helping him the way you did before the partnership even formed. Mentoring him and financially backing him when in truth he was not needed. He says in his Dstors profile "Haejin stole me" but sadly the truth is he sold himself for your Steem.

deepcrypto is Binance. It may be to late, but maybe you can contact them and give them a link to this post. It has proof he stole it, and they have taken actions showing that if one has proof of stolen crypto they will take it from the thief.

https://www.ccn.com/binance-foils-cryptopia-hacker-by-freezing-stolen-crypto/

I will write up a follow up tomorrow on this, although I doubt he will have a change of heart. I imagine he will either cash it out to pay his bills and disappear from Steemit, or send some of it back to a new account that won't have the shame of his theft attached to it.

Haejin, I just had a look at his wallet and am going to hold off just yet on making a post. I noticed in the sceenshot that I took for the post I was going to write that he has left 3,144.986 Steem in his wallet. Added with the Steem being powered down and interest earned on that Steem he could still cover his debt with you. Until his next transfer that would make it impossible, I can't say he has taken his next step in his theft.

I notice that his hatred of you compels him to troll you and your wife, which is another testament to his character, and am wondering if he plans to give you the money back but spend the next 3 months taunting you with it as he jabs in his pathetic bitterness. Or at least that is perhaps his plan for now. Being of low character, if he comes across another hard time I am sure he will cross that line and send out some of your share. But for now, he has not sent it out yet.

Not that it will mitigate any of the words being said, but I am sorry that he taunts you and has found some support for it. Water rises to its own level and he is showing us those of like character as they flock to his side with support.