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Splinterlands was multiple times the biggest DApp in the HIVE Ecosystem at it's peak and to this day it's easily the front runner Game DApp on HIVE.

I'm biased as I own a lot of Splinterlands assets myself, but Splinterlands definitely deserves support from Hive for what it offers back to the community.

Very strong community, lovely people, great team and an amazing product.

I play Splinterlands every single day!

In order to survive Splinterlands needs some serious funding. This is a very modest ask, I think 3 million Hive would have been a good start... Obviously Matt knows better and I fully support his proposal.

> It is also important to note that Splinterlands will not sell the HBD received from this proposal on external markets.

I really like that. I was a bit worried about the impact of this kind of selling pressure.

They will pay their dev's with it...who will sell it to pay their bills. Smoke and mirrors statement.

No, according to the proposal they won't give HBD to the devs. They will swap HBD to DEC in the diesel pool and they have a way to convert DEC to USD without selling it on the market. At least that's what Matt says in the proposal and the town hall.

It'll be interesting to see if the Splinterlands community itself has enough HP to pass this proposal.

Talking about how other chains offer "better" handouts. Here the consumer or in this case the gamer has the ability to be the provider, and the support (in this case $2777 per day) comes at no real cost to that consumer/community, provided they've staked some HP and participate. If that potential was fully understood and realized, it becomes clear (at least to me), that deal is hard to beat.

I will not be supporting this proposal. I don't play the game. Was never my cup of tea. I liked seeing it here though.

Several years and thousands of people. Surely the Splinterlands community has enough HP to pass this and if not, I'd have to ask all how that's even possible. For years we're told it brings value to Hive, so where is it? The amount of fan art I've seen rewarded over the years for example. Surely rewarding/supporting that endless stream of content (which doubled as free marketing)would lead to receiving support in return for something like this proposal. Surely a game that paid players just for playing would lead to having the ability to support a proposal like this. Surely, after all these years, there's something to show for it. If not, there are some valuable lessons to be learned.

Its interesting that you think that the Splinterlands players should have enough HIVE to be able to pass this on their own. That would mean Splinterlands players have more HIVE than non-Splinterlands HIVE owners. Please note those players would also own all their ingame Splinterlands assets too.

Its up to you how you draw your valuable lessons in life, but its kind of a weird way to look at it if you ask me.

I don't think it's weird and your defensive tone makes me think you're misinterpreting my intention here.

The decentralized nature affords everyone the opportunity to have a say. So let's say a gaming community showed up here, on Hive. Thousands of them, eager to support a new project. A project that needs funding. That funding comes at no real cost. Each individual still owns their HP. If they want funding, they'd have a better chance of receiving it if they had their own HP. For instance, why should I support it when I don't even know those people and don't care about their product. It's not up to me, it's up to them. Since it's such a great deal and can lead to projects receiving funding, I think this behavior should be encouraged.

So yes, I stand by my words and think it'll be interesting to see if the Splinterlands community has enough HP to pass this. It's a valuable lesson in the sense other communities can see how communities and projects get funded here. That could lead to more interest in the chain and the token.

It's not Hive's fault if this proposal doesn't pass. The Splinterlands community is at fault. Hive is an inanimate object.

I don't want to support this because I'd rather encourage and see you all support yourselves. It's a good deal and should be embraced. Your success is not my responsibility.

I think there's enough support behind the Splinterlands community to pass this. If not, well, wtf? There's thousands of you. What happened to all the money? And now you want more? Those are some of the questions I'd be asking.

I wasn't being defensive. I think its fine for you and everyone to vote how they want too, so no worry there either.

I certainly don't think it is Hive's fault if this didn't pass, nor do I think it would be Splinterland's fault if it didn't pass. Sometimes there is simply no fault, and things happen how they should happen.

My point is that if every project that asks for funding must have their users own half the total token, then there will only be ONE project that could ever get funded. You might not see a problem with that, and maybe that's how you think every funding should go so you vote no to everything... and that's cool if so! Cheers

I say similar things to content creators who feel they deserve more support. They're free to encourage outside money to enter this ecosystem and support their work with votes. It's a great deal to the consumer. They actually earn to be supportive. Same goes for the Splinterlands community. They could support this with their own HP, and earn on top of that, plus see their project get funding.

And if I see thousands of people step up to the plate to support this but you need 90k HP to get pushed over the 29 million HP required to pass this, I might change my mind and support it because then I can actually see the value.

That's a fair way to look at it. Cheers and thanks for the dialogue on this!

All good Dave. I didn't write that expecting the response to go smoothly lol.

Good luck here. And for the record, I do have a lot of respect for this project and the community behind it.

Back at you noname and lol on the smooth convo :)

I do appreciate you taking the time to engage, and I'm also glad to see that you have respect for the project even if you vote against the proposal itself. That's nice to hear and best wishes to you going forward!!!

I've returned briefly to offer some perspective. Initially you made it sound like I'm setting the bar way too high for the Splinterlands community.

I want to show you something. It's a Thread I published to this chain a few months ago.

https://inleo.io/threads/view/nonameslefttouse/re-leothreads-2ja2szhqx

"Fun Fact: The "middle class" on Hive is stronger than you think. Orcas with 37M HP and Dolphins with 27M HP. That's more than enough power to pass a proposal for example..."

Was accurate at the time of writing. "Dolphins" alone have nearly enough HP to push this proposal into approved status.

This is why people need to show up/participate, rather than feeling like it's so far out of reach they shouldn't even try.

And it's worth noting, when I say "Splinterlands Community", I know for a fact some have a lot of HP and some have very little. Combined, you're a powerful bunch capable of great things.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain all of this and I wasn't aware when I wrote the original comment that it wasn't a 50% threshold to pass. (my premise was flawed in the beginning)

I definitely agree with you that people need to be involved to make things happen. I also agree that people on all DAOs (including ours) should realize that owning their governance token gives them power collectively, so they need to learn how to use it if they want results they seek. I think many people feel that its just "the whales" that decide things, but in reality the mid level voters carry more weight than they realize.

Again I appreciate the positive and constructive engagement, its much appreciated no matter how this prop works out.

Back when I published those thoughts, it was an attempt to dispel some of the myths. It's not a whale's club. Even in the comment section here we can see folks perpetuating those myths.

So I'm not supporting the proposal. I'm supporting the fact you're all perfectly capable of supporting it.

I've been watching closely. And for years I've been under the impression Splinterlands was, big. Many of the community members said so themselves. At times even boastfully.

As of this writing I'm seeing only 465 votes backing this proposal. 66 by proxy meaning they've not engaged.

I don't know much about Splinterlands or the community. It would be incredibly irresponsible of me to support this blindly. So I sit, wait, and watch. Actions speak louder than words.

I think it is fair that you watch such things and draw the conclusions that you feel are appropriate. I know I would do the same thing if it was a Splinterlands DAO vote. Honestly I'm thrilled to see you paying attention and being open about what you are looking for, that's all anyone could hope for in my opinion.

To get a proposal funded you need way less than 50%. Not even 10%.

Thank you for explaining this, my premise was definitely flawed from the beginning on this!

There is absolutely no way the Splinterlands community has enough HP on their own to pass this. If that was the case, Splinterlands would basically own the platform and we could ask for much more and always get it approved. That would be very unhealthy.

LEO community passed theirs. Some of them are also part of Splinterlands community. I don't see how encouraging the Splinterlands community to get behind this and support their own project with their own money is a bad thing.

I'm not saying that encouraging the Splinterlands community to support their own project is a bad thing. What I'm saying is that it is impossible to pass it with just our support. I doubt we'd even reach 50% of the necessary vote power.

And I think, after this many years and that many community members, that could change and together you can work towards self sustainability. Building up that foundation could have started several years ago but since it hasn't, perhaps today would be a good time to start.

I think it's coming from the wrong place to assume players hold HP, most I assume hold ingame assets and ingame currencies tied to spl. the @steemmonster account afaik even provides people with delegations, or did so in the past so they can play the game, now we moved onto RC being delegated itself which makes HP delegations obsolete for this task.

It would sure be nice if the game would place more notice or encourage players to become socially active on chain which, even though my opinions may be quite outdated, I didn't see much of in the past when on the website. With many users not even being aware that there was this whole other universe of things they could do with the keys and accounts they had paid for to get when diving into spl and with just very few artists and social users already aware of hive getting the benefits of curation.

At the end of the day, if we did have more projects like SPL there'd be a "hidden" cost and hodl pressure building both on the projects and our resource credits which ultimately means you'll need to acquire HP to provide your community with the freedom to transact.

We may have been a bit too early to jump the gun on making RC itself a pool that can be leased/bought, which I'm sure close to no one does at this time and even at the height of things barely anyone did with HP itself aside from leasing it for profit, barely anyone leased it for being able to use the chain or providing your community/players/product users with actions to use the blockchain. So getting to that place where RC is scarce and required may take an even longer time and bigger influx of users to reach now than it did before but in a way that also makes our chain more scalable even if we don't need it currently.

We're just way ahead of things on the backend it feels like and more focus should shift on actually bringing in people here, whether through games or some of our other countless projects that make web3 stand out from web2 with value going to users rather than just the creators.

I know the community exists though, even if they're quiet in the social arena. Just look at all the views Splinterlands posts receive locally. And if Splinterlands decides to go elsewhere because funding, those people go with them. And those people also lose ALL the benefits they could receive if they were to be the ones behind pushing this proposal through. Strong chance they're not even aware of those perks and would follow blindly. That turns into a missed opportunity for them, not Hive. Meanwhile the well dries up fast elsewhere. Put your money where your mouth is here, as a group; you actually have a future.

But only when the potential is fully realized and the concepts understood. And that can't happen without some asshole like me coming along to be like this in a comment section lol.

You talk about bringing people in. That's something I'd like to see as well. If I support this, that's equal to 900 people with 100 HP each. I push a button so they can sit on their hands, enjoy a game, get paid, until this half million runs out. 900 then expect another bail out. And it just goes on like that.

Communities have strength in numbers. So I insist they get out there and flex.

I don't disagree with some of the things you said, that's also why I would've wanted more players to be active on chain so they can diversify or at least earn more HP and broaden their horizons with the activity that's possible here. It'd be a bit much to expect them to vote the proposal into funding, though.

I don't disagree with what you said either. Didn't touch on it simply because I've said things similar over the years.

So, Hive would be the planet; the ground everyone walks on. On Hive, much like the Earth, we have several communities. Splinterlands being one of them.

We're missing the roads, in a sense. Splinterlands isn't the only community that makes it difficult for people to travel and enjoy the sights and sounds of the other cities. Often the communities aren't tied together, acting more like distant islands with very little trade.

That can change of course, but I've noticed the problem for several years now, pointed it out several times, got nowhere, and only saw the problem get worse.

I don't think it's a bit much for them to be able to support themselves. Had years to prepare. And I'd rather see thousands of people stepping up to the plate and taking action rather than just a handful of large stakeholders. All that does is create the illusion the project is popular and on its way to bigger and better things. If the community itself can't put their money where their mouth is and back this on their own, they've nothing to lose and will just carry on with the same habits that placed them in this position now. If it's such a big success and valuable, why the easy out? Doesn't make sense to me. We're all part of a community here somehow. Splinterlands is my neighbor. Why are they asking me to gas up my mower and mow their lawn in order to protect their property value? Mow your own damn grass. And don't tell me with all those people living over there you can't afford gas and don't have enough able bodies to get the job done lol.

These communities have strength in numbers and can do so much more for themselves but won't if they're bailed out so easily every time. I'd like to see the projects succeed combined with communities being the reason they're so successful.

My message to this Splinterlands community is this: If this is something you want, get in here and participate no matter how much HP you have. Nobody exists here to hold your hand. Your hands exist so you can use them.

Just revisiting this post, checking up on the progress and whatnot.

> It'd be a bit much to expect them to vote the proposal into funding

Perhaps I misspoke. To clarify, this is what I said.

> It'll be interesting to see if the Splinterlands community itself has enough HP to pass this proposal.

I'm not saying it's their sole responsibility. What I'm saying is it'll be interesting to see how far they can push it up, alone. I was under the impression they had a lot. Interested in seeing what they're capable of, as a community.

And I'm still thinking there's a lot more out there somewhere but we're not seeing it due to lack of interest in participating. Some are unaware. Some are inactive. Many contributing factors which I am aware of, of course.

My position wasn't and isn't something like, "F you. Do it yourself."

I see that support trickling in though. I see a good range of HP levels. I think there's more to come yet, from the Splinterlands community.

And I'll support this once I feel confident they did their best. Got a trick up my sleeve as well. Can double my voting power since I vote for the return as well. 180k sitting on the table for them. But only if they go first.

Does that make me less of a prick? lol

I'd love to see these systems running at their full potential.

> That would mean Splinterlands players have more HIVE than non-Splinterlands HIVE owners.

No, They would just need enough to get over the return value.

[IMAGE: https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/tarazkp/23t74tdo7nDvj3Rip2XCKvdysTYL5FQU1VJrhXEHNkv1uMuCPhDakkHcVj3aDHzL7bExU.png]

Thanks for pointing that out by the way. I saw the error but felt I didn't have the time to take the conversation in that direction so let it slide.

Yeah, it is a side case. However it is also good to remember that considering the length of Splinterlands on Hive, some could have transferred earnings into Hive also, not just the other way.

Splinterlands community had several years to prepare for a day like this and could easily (EASILY) rise to the occasion. If this is what they want, the power is in their hands. Half million dollars sounds like a lot but to each one of these individuals, there is no cost in supporting it. No money? BS. Those cards are not worthless. Find some buyers, transfer some funds, support project, guarantee its future to the ones buying those assets by supporting this proposal. Much easier than trying to convince me a trend reversal isn't necessary and it's somehow my responsibility as Hive stakeholder to support this so they can continue.

Can't build a house without a foundation.

"Not allowed." I spoke to you under that post of yours. Here's another example where in society, like I said there, it's the regular folk who will refuse to take action. The power is their hands but it's easier to point at someone else and expect results from them. If this doesn't go through, "It's Hive's fault!"

No. It isn't. And I don't see this project moving elsewhere as a threat even though the wording here in the post could come across sounding like one.

I'll just view it as yet another group of humans completely oblivious to their full potential.

thanks for the clarification @tarazkp!

Probably, you don't know, these proposals accepted by approx. 20% of total active HP.

So, since SPL played a big role in the up stick and after the down one, as well, I just suppose, they should have 20% of total active HP.

In reality, I know, they don't have, as they don't really know Hive economy part, never was intention of SPL people to 'educate' them.

I also think, the DHF proposals should have at least 40% total active HP approval rate (more likely 50%+), but Hive in this point of view, simply not decentralized at all.

In that case, people could block the nonsense money flows, like financing racing car, croatian holiday, never seen, hidden Hive movie etc.

Since DHF Hive, money created out of thin air, and put huge sell pressure, it all should go back for ads, marketing, community building, spread word in web2 through influencers, streamers etc.

Whoever get this money, they don't even bother to make a real financial report (look what valueplan, and leofinance is doing), even if they promise. They max make an amatur post without real numbers, details, and they call it professional project management...😂

Lots of people should be SACKED OUT asap from the project management, near to DHF money, even just for having the smallest chance for Hive.

But it's just a buddy circle, (how politicians, big corps, oligarch circles) not a coincidence this Matt guy finish his proposal with the Croatian holiday... i mean wtf real business that have with proposal? nothing.😉

so how things go, just take it, it's a one way street, and who are onboard, in the circle, care about the small amount today in their pocket, not actually use DHF money for the right purpose, and take the big money tomorrow.

Yes I didn't know that only 20% was required to pass the prop. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

follow dalz, he makes good stats, he is one of the witnesses. rarely he makes stats about SPL, too. so good to read his posts. (if you are an spl user, good to share it amongst them, so they will get a bit more info, how Hive works, currently stands)

about the active HP (and need 28-30M for proposal accepting):

https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@dalz/what-is-the-share-of-the-hive-power-that-is-actively-votingcurating-or-june-2024

excellent info, thanks Pokermaria!

What are you on about dude? Freechain was seen at a festival and at last Hivefest. It was picked up last month by one of the former Golden Globes judges to push to international markets.
Because it has wider appeal its not put up on youtube or elsewhere.

Yes, I know, that means 99%+ of active Hive users haven't seen it yet. (anyway, that part is not important.)

I read your last post about it. And no offence, but from average user point of view, it looks like this. The kinda top secret cia movie about area-51.

Atm, it's just another project, what about nobody made financial report, but definitely cost a lot, and have just future promise. And correct me if I am wrong, it's ready since a year. After given time, people go with stereotypes, especially, if that's pretty much a safe bet.

Since there is no 'Hive welcome page' with all-in-one info about how it works, front-ends, dapps, dao, everything, video tutorials about basics, especially about sign-up + regularly updated, I see very small chance it will change things.

AND: it will cost again lots of money. probably that's part of the reason why valueplan raised the quarterly amount to 300k. So I can imagine how much it cost.

Yes, I 100% stand for that Hive need a serious project manager with relevant successful background in web2 marketing with active business network, next to knowing web3.

In the end, atm ii's the same, very few people decide what for the money goes, and I am also 100% sure, they got paid (not coincidence even valuplan last post call them P.M.). They failed to do (at least successfully) their job.

Obviously, for web3, especially for soc media, all marketing, ads must happen online. Very basic, cost effective, and effective. (I don't say ask a relevant person, because I exactly know, that you know, rally car won't bring users, even expensive google ads are much more effective.)

I don't question your intention, but the money what just get wasted, could be used much better. The DAU numbers proving, it's not used effectively atm at all. (Hard to use in any worse way.)

For example, just paying couple of grand for a streamer with 0.5-1M+ active followers for 10-15 hours and sit down, stream live with a whale, regular Hive user, walk through registration, basics + make him/her a community, delegate big amount of HP for a month would bring a lot more users than all the valueplan, leofinance stuff did in the last 1+ year...

Anyway, I don't care much, sold my few k Hive when I've got the full picture, now just should get out with min. loss from the lovely games here... :)

However, honestly, GL, and all the best! Time will tell, I am the totally wrong, or others!

>Yes, I know, that means 99%+ of active Hive users haven't seen it yet.

Thats what you called out, thats what I answered. the point of the film wasnt to make a film for Hivers. That was made clear many times. That would be a waste. The point was to have the film picked up by someone in the industry that will push it towards the international market. That has happened.
This not coinciding with whatever timeline you set for the film is not something I can do anything about.

>and I am also 100% sure, they got paid (not coincidence even valuplan last post call them P.M.). They failed to do (at least successfully) their job.

im listed up there. I havent been paid a dime. Not for the car or for Vibes. You can track all payments yourself.

>For example, just paying couple of grand for a streamer with 0.5-1M+ active followers

Youtubers, with 1 mil followers charge 20-30k USD for a 15 second promotion. For crypto youtubers double that. I dont know about streamers but I assume its in that ballpark.
How do I know that? Because I talked to these people.

>Anyway, I don't care much, sold my few k Hive when I've got the full picture, now just should get out with min. loss from the lovely games here... :)

Youre the type of guy that will spread negativity, falsely, on one chain and then move to another so happy you left, until you realize things elsewhere are a 100 times worse. ofc, cognitive dissonance will kick in at that point.

There is nothing better than Hive. Hive is whatever the community make it into.. You wont get that freedom anywhere else. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

But then again... most people are followers, peasants in need of an overlord to do good by them. someone for them to cheer. a benevolent dictator. A daddy. Someone to baby them.

I think its sad that for all the promise crypto is making no one wants the freedom decentralization gives and do something with it. theyre rather complain and do nothing.

> Thats what you called out, thats what I answered.

Obviusly, I haven't called out that, even added, it's not important, Hivers seen or not. I called out: not a single potential new user seen it yet. (No need to ride on words, turn them in and out, when you exactly know what I meant, I don't suppose about you any mental sickness, because you have different opinion, point of view.)

:) I actually was involved in organizing streams like that. So I know the pricing, it's way less. At least few years ago twitch streamers did 10 hours within 2 weeks for 3-6k based on followers, average live watchers, all was over half M followers (Since then, I heard, they do it even cheaper, as twitch cut rewards.)

• the advantage, that get a streamer onboard here, and delegate HP for him for a month, could even lower that cost, as he can deliver prizes through upvotes for his followers + next to that earn from Hive, too, even for long term.

Perfect example why Hive need a serious person, not silly kids playing with everybody's money, and can't even make a financial report, what for they waste it. Sorry, but you don't even understand how, with what benefits, discounts it could be best advertised in the most cost effective way. You just don't even see the benefit of Hive regarding this one either.

> You can track all payments yourself

:) I checked those, I saw, plenty of these paid in front, strangly, found only very few ones, who return the left-overs...

But you know, it's untrackable for average user, and as I am sure, nobody takes really care of it. Anyway, not even that's the point.

> Youre the type of guy that will spread negativity, falsly
> cognitive dissonance will kick in at that point

Sounds like someone has taken it upon themselves to call attention to general problems with DHF and the few, who really decide what for it will be spent. I wonder why?

Hive itself didn't do anything since years, the spike was done by SPL, and general hype. Wasting DHF money what should be spent on ads, marketing, onboarding and financing new projects (not with this system, giving to them the vote, money basically in front, and do nothing, if they deliver nothing), not spent on operational costs of the countless front-ends, what from 2 would be more than enough... etc., etc.

> You wont get that freedom anywhere else. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

What freedom? The DHF financed opinion based censorship machine? or the DHF 20% of total active HP proposal approval rate, what against you can't even vote? very few accounts can control it.

And the above just shows, the real DHF money handlers, in practice, dont want any kind of FREEDOM here, they want to be the LORDS, and wait for the plebs to follow, whatever they think, do. No matter how long, how bad it is working or not...

And me, a non-follower, just called out mentally sick, because my opinion oppose, and you are probably personally feel offended (good feedback, at least I know, sure it included some truth), can't take it as progressive criticism.

Hive need serious people who are in charge over the DHF voted money for ads, marketing, onboarding etc. goes for.

Just as a last point: since years, nobodoy from this valuplan team could make a single successful story, onboarding thousands of people, who are more or less permanently stay.
(not mention the 5-6 front-end operational financing nonsense, especially leo)

DAU, MAU numbers are the obvious feedback, how badly you guys spend that money. But sure, no worries, I know, I have the mental problems! 🤣

>(Since then, I heard, they do it even cheaper, as twitch cut rewards.)

Give me some names. If its not expensive it might work.

>DHF and the few, who really decide what for it will be spent

Nobody decides anything here. Everybody does their own thing. Whales generally dont even talk to each other. There is no "the few" anything.

>The DHF financed opinion based censorship machine?

Come on. Censorship machine on Hive. Its literally the fundamental feature of Hive. Censorship resistance. This isnt just wrong. Its stupid to claim such an absolutely absurd thing.

>And the above just shows, the real DHF money handlers, in practice, dont want any kind of FREEDOM here, they want to be the LORDS,

Who are these lords? I know literally everyone here of any repute and what all of them basically do. Where are these lords? I havent seen any.

Its actually the lack of control whales are willing to take that is an actual problem.

>Just as a last point: since years, nobodoy from this valuplan team could make a single successful story, onboarding thousands of people, who are more or less permanently stay.

I onboarded more than a thousand people through Vibes in a couple months. All visible onchain. Vibes is VP funded and therefor those users are by default here due to their funding.

About streaming sponsorships, ads, I asked for quotes, share it in a post later, and i will tag you and the so called project managers. (Took 1 hour to ask from 20+ streamers... :) )

> Come on. Censorship machine on Hive. Its literally the fundamental feature of Hive. Censorship resistance. This isnt just wrong. Its stupid to claim such an absolutely absurd thing.

I think, the fact, it's like this is the stupid, not calling it out.

Lots of people left because of that. I've seen it, how everybody regarding many topics, especially about hyped ones, just few: covid-communism, politics, war etc. So not even the 'bar fight' category things.

And yes, they don't ban, just downvote, what leads to the same result. Less users, because of DHF founded employees have different opinion.

>About streaming sponsorships

Sure.

>just downvote

Nobody is entitled to any rewards here. Theyre happy to post to twitter for free, yet a downvote on post that would earn them nothing elsewhere is a problem?
No. Theyre the problem. There is a psychological aspect to it but the fact of selfmoderation is that in fact people will be the ones moderating. If someone wants a centralized authority to do it for them, then they should go back to web2

Bloody hell with the general greedy mindset here generally... I didn't even mention earning, what I meant the person reputation goes down, so posts, comment won't be visible anymore.

hivewatchers is a centralized authourity, pretty much same like facebook has the moderators, they paid for it. Only difference - what about I am not sure - they decide what opinion they don't want here regarding hyped topics, not their employer.

so in practice, it's the same like web2

No. Hivewatchers dont downvote based on political affiliation or anything like that. Its just spammers and scammers. They make mistakes but in 100% of cases its related to scamming and spamming.
In reality its nothing like web2.

Streaming sponsorships

I asked around. It's a way different nowadays, how it was in 2018-19. I have to admit, prices are 2-3x+ , but still the most (cost) effective.

No1 change: got just few answers, but except 1, all came from agencies, managers, not streamers directly. It wasn't like this before. so no direct offers, you know how these operate, need to fix lots of things to be able give offers.

Hourly rate (actively spend the stream with advertising product) is starting from the $2-3k range for an over 1k average live watchers streamer case.

I explained for 1 how this could work regarding payment (the DHF) thing. Why need some from/to range as a basic. They gave me a link, they created a tool based on their streamer clients previous contracts, so you just type here the twitch streamer name, and it gives a range. They wrote, it's more accurate in less popular streamers case, with 1-3k average live watchers. (i think, for profit maximizing purposes they over-shoot the real cost, amount a bit)

https://novo.tv/twitch-sponsorship-rate-calculator

I am sure, these costs could be lowered, if a native english speaker, and relevant person, could explain them the long term earning potential for streamers with Hive, and the benefits of their audiance, but at least stuck at the minimum of the mentioned range.

They also mentioned kick.com is taking away some of the cheaper streamers, but on that platform, it could be done too.

Another one have lots of esports clients, they have pretty wild variety of sponsorships. banners, wearing logos, sponsor them on specific events, even sponsor the specific event itself etc.

i guess, you know twitchtracker, i wasnt aware how big pump the covid-show did, but its slowly declining, so it could be done very cost effectively, just have to find the right ones.

Out of curiousity, I just asked few agencies with lots of streamer clients (all kind of categories), who are organizing campaigns like this, would they even do such things, and what they can offer for crypto projects, how many streamers are familiar, did crypto ads before. i guess they will be back in the next week.

so, i don't see why it couldn't work in some form, and it's not that expensive, how you wrote, even if it's already not that cheap how i thought. definitely could be more effective instead of actual leofinance, valueplan ads, onboarding.

I just got another quote, where they describe exactly CCV numbers and prices - as they wrote, you can negotiate further with them, sure if someone explain them the long term potential, earning, benefits for the streamers and their followers, it can be further reduced. now it's not so far from that what i thought. how i thought, that calculator what another sent is overpriced.

These guys have half+ million followers, during (or after) a stream usually they got more than 200-500k unique watchers on their videos, next to high ccv.

i think, this is the most efficient way to advertise Hive. cheapest for target audiance.

I can send you through on discord, or in email what i got (the streamers name and management agencies), and you can make it happen if you think so.

> QuoteHi Maria,
Thanks so much for reaching out to Emily! Happy to provide rates for her Twitch stream as I think she is a great fit. I am also including the rates of other major streamers who expressed interest in opportunities like this, so they will all be listed below.
Emily - 7k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $15,000
Price per 3 hours = $22,500
Cyr - 2k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $5,000
Price per 3 hours = $7,500
Tectone - 8.3k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $20,000
Price per 3 hours = $27,500
Emiru - 16k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $33,000
Price per 3 hours = $45,000
Nmplol - 11k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $22,500
Price per 3 hours = $32,000
Mizkif - 19k CCV
Price per 2 hours = $41,000
Price per 3 hours = $55,000
Please note all rates above are the creators' preferred rates, meaning we are happy to negotiate to make a deal happen.
Let me know if you have any questions!

You do see now what amounts we are talking about? You went from your 2-6k for 10 hours of promotion to the cheapest you listed being for 7k CCV at around 70k USD for 10 hours of promotion.

>i think, this is the most efficient way to advertise Hive. cheapest for target audience.

You yourself now saw what i told you initially that this is expensive as fuck and even the target audience isnt set well.
You can blow a million dollars like this on a few streamers in just 1 day.

2-6k for 10 hours, sure. 70k no way in hell is this a smart way to spend money. You would seriously support a proposal saying that it will spend 70k USD on Emily to stream about Hive for 10 hours.

Be serious now? Would you support that?

it cost like that in 2019. and not top streamers, you made deal directly with them. These are top50-100 streamers.

pretty sure, these prices can be pushed down by 20-50%, especially if you explain how they can further earn on Hive, make longer term deal about their activity (weekly 1-2 blog on Hive), even if streaming just 1 time offer. And in that way, Hive benefits a lot from this.

No, for 1 streamer I wouldn't spend that much, but for 3 times 1 hour spending 50-100k for 5 top streamer, yes no doubt, i would.

Wasting 100 and 100k for rally car and all the nonsense you spend money, what provenly don't bring users, especially not in mass, or spending that for this, sure, I would spend for a streamer like this. If I compare it to 1 rally car, I would even spend all that money on 1 streamer, because I know, it's working, and it brings users!!!

i could even mention leofinance, with their insane promises without result (and report). How much does that cost? $150-200k? zero result!

and you really think, is this the expensive??? 🤣 think again...

You cant take the projects you think are a waste to justify what would obviously be a waste. You justify it by the merits of what youre proposing.

You went from a few thousand USD to 70k USd. THat is what you sent. You yourself saw that its not so easy and simple to promote Hive. Nor is it cheap.
A Hive car is a car thats a longterm investment. Whatever you think about the rally car aside. A streamer promoting it is just a few hours of promotion for huge money.,

As i just wrote, you can negotiate with them, make a proper deal.

well, your insane high 20-30k USD for a 15 second promotion is the out of reality, and just shows, you never even went after this (what i told, Hive need a serious marketing project manager). if we compare it to that, i was much nearer to actual numbers.

obviously, you don't know how a similar marketing campaign building up on twitch. you don't start with big ones, but with small ones, making giveaways, promotions for their audiance, when the word has spread, it went viral, you do with bigger ones, so it's not limited only for a certain streamer audiance, but pretty much way over 50%+ of active twitch users, lets say in a month. even with the given prices, it can be done for the cost, what the rally car has taken in this year. going viral on twitch, or lets race in monaco! up to what you really want to achieve from that money. growing Hive, or enjoy your hobby... :)

and i never said I would spend 70k, you try to push it in my mouth, i told what it cost, when i was involved in a similar one years ago. dont need to be 10hours, obviously.

:) a car, in any form, never can be an investment. definitely not as a sponsorship for a web3 project. nor the bike racing - even if that's 'just' $20k in this year so far, not $200k like your hobby... :)

why don't you post a poll about it, with real numbers, the hourly rates what they gave, what would people think, what is worthy, spend $200k+ in a year for a rally car, or spend for few top streamers and lots of smaller ones within a campaign on Twitch, in form to get them longer term onboard with their audiance?

you know the answer, i know the answer, everybody knows the answer.

you could also add the leofinance money wasting, the wrestling nonsense, some of these 5k+/conference attendances, vibes etc. and you end up way over $500k spend for nothing in a year, what didnt bring a single user... so the money is there, just spent totally wrong.

actually, i think, you don't really want to grow Hive, because current controllers, whales have a fear they lose control if Hive grows, so no more privilige accessing to the money tap. nothing else makes any sense.

>well, your insane high 20-30k USD for a 15 second promotion is the out of reality, and just shows, you never even went after this

Thats the first thing i went after. Literally the first. A youtuber. I have their name, their manager name. Emails. Then I looked at crypto ones. Double the price.

So I know exactly how much it costs.

You gave a number 2-6k for 10 hours from a 1 million follower account, or whatever it was. I said... alrite. I want to see who it is he thinks would do it for so little of that size.
YOu came back to me with the lowest option of 7k CCV and a cost of 70k.

I dont know what it is you want. This obviously isnt a realistic thing to do by your own metrics that are waaaaaay off.

now you stuck with this 10 hours long thing... i don't understand why, when it can be done in many forms, cost effectively. (and just ignore everything else)

so you think, everything goes fine, DHF money well spent, in the most effective way and this is the maximum Hive can reach, best case stagnating DAU - seeing dapps, declining -, plummeting Hive price (and yes, DHF part of the reason of that)?

obviously, nothing. i get it! fortunately, i am out of Hive! just out of curiousity, i will make a post, poll, lets see what the few others think about it.

>so you think, everything goes fine, DHF money well spent, in the most effective way and this is the maximum Hive can reach, best case stagnating DAU

No. Thats why I gave you a chance of telling me what it is you think would work and be a better way to spend money.

Your initial projection on which you base at least a part of your dissatisfaction with Hive promotion, and was your own solution to making it better, was so incredibly off from real figures after your own research!!

And you still persist as if it is a good idea. STILL! After you see with your own eyes from your own research that its not as simple as you think it is.

Instead of changing your tune and now finally understanding the difficulties present you persist. Now you will have a poll.

Go ahead. I love polls. Ill just link this convo here.

And btw, the reach of each influencer is directly tied to the price of promotion. There are market prices for this too.

Look. Ill give anyone the time of day. 10HP, 1million HP. Ill talk to anyone.

But this is kind of like seeing those flat earth guys doing a test, and their own test proving to them that the Earth indeed isnt flat. And they still refuse to accept it.

A reasonable person... and im not saying youre not reasonable... would take what they saw themselves come from their own research and they would adjust their own initial position now that they see that things arent as clear cut as they thought.

I hope you do as well. Good luck with the poll.

Less than 10% of all existing Hive+HP combined vote for the return proposal.
Problem is not a lack of decentralization. Problem is that not enough people care.

good to see your still here :)

That actually made me smile. Thanks.

good to see you're still here seeing good :)

me too

I think you misunderstand the situation.

Yes, Splinterlands runs on Hive but most Splinterlanders are completely unaware of and indifferent to the engineering, cos we are playing a game.

I doubt there are many splinterlanders that own any Hive at all.

And now the Splinterlands community can see several damn good reasons to not be like that anymore.

I'm aware many are somewhat disconnected. That can easily change. Becomes a beneficial change for all involved.

If the very people who love the game don't want to support it or contribute to its success, why should I?

I have played Splinterlands every single day without fail since discovering it in early 2021. As such, I have apparently been using the Hive blockchain every single day.

As those actions are not published as posts, I get no HP from that activity, despite using hive more than most of you actual Hivers.

To a gamer, Hive is just the engineering it runs on, so not at all interesting per se.

Of course, Hive is much more than that, and its potential is enormous, but the Hive culture is sort of horrible,

You downvote each other in mean and spiteful ways all the time and actually look down on Splinterlanders. I have spent the last year reaching out to Hivers and they almost all just ignore you! One even told me he did not want to listen to me, even though I am trying to grow Hive!

Hive needs to become more open and welcoming, because right now it is realising its potential.

You guys should totally reach out to and support splinterlands!

Have you voted for this proposal?

> Hive needs to become more open and welcoming

Hive is just a blockchain. That's like asking a tree to hug you back. All over the internet you'll run into shitty people. They should be the least of your worries.

I'd rather see the Splinterlands community contributing to its own success rather than making excuses and passing the buck. No matter how much people want to pressure me or attempt to guilt trip me into it, I won't budge on that position.

Hive is way more than just a blockchain....

I don't understand the first sentence of your second paragraph, and as far as I know we were chatting, with no thought to pressure you or guilt you into anything, so please chill dude! 😀

I'm chill. It's all good.

You have 70 HP. You came to me with some promises of a grand idea that will bring investors and that you will make a game 100 times bigger than Splinterlands. Not even an idea. a PROMISE OF AN IDEA.
I responded very nicely to your grandiose claims that sound pretty nuts if im being honest.

Now ive seen you 5-6 times already talking nonsense that Hivers arent open or welcoming.

What youre doing is sort of horrible.

Firstly, I am a splinterlands player and not particularly paying attention to HP.

I came to you and asked you if I could explain my plan and ideas to you and you declined.

I made no promises at all, I just told you what I was going for and you did not want to hear me out.

Similarly, I made no grandiose claims at all.

I have reached out to many hivers over the last year. To give you some credit, you did respond to my request to talk, albeit if only to say no, without having anything like enough info to make any kind of assessment.

The vast majority of you hivers have simply ignored my polite requests to talk, so my experience is that Hivers are not at all welcoming or open.

If that is "sort of horrible", I can only apologise, but I have been truthful and respectful at all times, which you and your fellow Hivers, with one or two notable exceptions, largely have not.

Sorry if that is disturbing, but it is at least true and accurate in terms of what my experiece has been....

Your idea with questions like:

>could Hive cope with a game a couple of orders of magnitude bigger than splinterlands?

>I could run through the plan for the venture dao, the first three businesses, and the plan to bring HNWIs into Hive.

>As you will understand, there are a variety of challenges to be overcome when setting up a venture dao plus seven to fifteen new businesses, but I have solutions for most of them.

All grand claims. I explained to you that you need to build reputation on Hive that you need to prove to you can actually do any of this stuff.
From the point of view of anyone reasonable talking to someone with 70HP claiming this stuff without even building any kind of reputation onchain is a waste of time.
I explained to you what you need to do and that you dont build a consensus by DMing a random hiver.
You do it by proving that you can deliver even the smallest thing to Hive and building a reputation for yourself.

You saw that as you did and were extremely happy to paint Hive in a bad light because of it in the discord and now here.

>albeit if only to say no, without having anything like enough info to make any kind of assessment.

I did not say no. I told you what you need to do. Even if I did say no, which i did not, that has no bearing on your idea working or not. An idea thats not even an idea. Just big claims of stuff you can do without previously proving you can do any of it.

Do you go through your DMs on Twitter and give the time of day to random people you dont know in your spam inbox? Im sure you dont. What about those telling you: "I can bring millions of dollars of investment to your project."

I took the time to help you out to the best of my ability and gave you a course of action. You responded with... Hivers arent welcoming and open.

What you are is disingenuous which is clearly why people shouldnt take claims like you made seriously or respond to them. It was my fault giving you the time of day. Now we just have another FUDer to add to idiots like Bulldog to this conversation.

I knew you were a Splinterlander and a Hive Witness when I reached out to you and, as your profile says you are in Marketing, as am I, I thought you might think I was at least worth hearing out, rather than leaping to assumptions as you actually did.

Your "advice" was that I need to prove I can do something before doing something, which is literally impossible.

A rational response would be to listen to my plan, ask thoughtful questions, and if you found it stacked up, give it your support and if it doesn't, point out what is wrong.

I don't know what your business background or experience is, but there is nothing at all strange about reaching out to influential people to gather consensus and support for new initiatives.

Finally, as you like quotes so much, what i asked you was

"I am trying to build consensus and support for the plan, so if I could gain that from you, it would be awesome. All I ask is let me lay it out for you and you can see for yourself if it stacks or not, and so worth supporting or not".

To which you replied "There isnt really much I can help you with now. especially put my name behind an idea you might have. especially if you will request funding for it.

You have to prove you can deliver something or build value for Hive before you can get a real answer from anyone. Sorry."

In summary, you refused to listen, leapt to conclusions, and blew me off without ever taking the trouble to find out if my plan had any merit at all.

Those are the facts mate,

I had to look up disingenuous and it equates to deception, so again you have just made stuff up, (hurtful, insulting stuff), when you could have just as easily and with less effort asked a question or two and actually learned something.

All in all, you have been exactly what I said about Hivers, which is you are not a group that is either open or welcoming.

You try and paint that as fud, aka fear, uncertainty, and doubt. No idea where you pulled that from but it is just as false as your other unmerited attacks on me.

Don't worry though, I don't hold grudges and won't be getting involved in downvoting or blacklisting people, which is just petty.

I would strongly recommend taking a more fact based, question lead, approach rather than making stuff up, but you do you! 😀

>Your "advice" was that I need to prove I can do something before doing something, which is literally impossible.

No, its not impossible at all. How do you think I got in the position to do the things I do? Not wanting to put work in doesnt make things impossible.

>A rational response would be to listen to my plan, ask thoughtful questions, and if you found it stacked up, give it your support and if it fdoesn't point out what is wrong.

I gave you a rational response. Show the community you can do any of the things you claim and people will take you seriously.

>"I am trying to build consensus and support for the plan, so if I could gain that from you, it would be awesome.

I told you that is not how you build a consensus. I dont know you. I dont know what you can do. Youre not active on Hive and havent shown youre capable of anything, let alone the big things you claim.

>In summary, you refused to listen, leapt to conclusions, and blew me off without ever taking the trouble to find out if my plan had any merit at all.

I listened to you plenty and explained everything in detail. I explained it to you again here. Hive is a reputation based community. Thats why we have no rugs here. You have no reputation and are clearly unwilling to generate any.
The first step is understanding Hive. Understanding decentralization. Being part of discussions. I guess this here what youre doing is a good step in that direction.

>I had to look up disingenuous and it equates to deception, so again you have just made stuff up,

Being given an honest and helpful answer and then painting that as us Hivers (news flash, youre a hiver too) not being open and welcoming is disingenuous.

>approach rather than making stuff up

Again. Disingenuous.

I am sure you think you are making sense and it is probably impossible to talk you down, so I think I will just drop this conversation as it lacks the commitment to honesty and transparency that I expect.

Thanks for proving my point for me though.

You either understand decentralization or you dont. If youre unwilling to learn, I cant help you.
There is no quick road to the point where your voice matters. The only way there is to use it. You tried appealing to me as if im an authority, as if that will get you anywhere quickly. Thats not how stuff works here.

You need to build yourself up. No one can do that for you. And thats as honest and transparent of an answer you can get.

This is really going to be my final attempt to get through to you...

Please consider that questions are more useful than assumptions, which are so very easy to get wrong....

I was reaching out to you as another member of the collective that is hive. Building consensus amongst a collective is the right thing to do. hive is dependent on its OGs.

Apparently you don't know what networking is, which is weird for someone helping run a blockchain...

Although I have been opposing centralised authority since i was a teenager, been involved in blogging for nearly 20 years, and in crypto since 09, you know all about me and what I am trying to do. Right!

You appear to be discriminating against me cos I haven't blogged on Hive, but that isn't why I am here.

Furthermore it is frankly reckless and not a little weird to judge business plans by somebody's track record as a blogger.

I suspect if we count up all the SPL games I have played continuously for over three years, I have been on Hive more than you! Maybe we gamers should get some credit for that...

Anyways, you appear to be stuck in your little groove of faux righteousness, and there is no.one to lift the stylus for you, so I don't know what else to say to you other than you really need to drink more coffee!

>You appear to be discriminating against me cos I haven't blogged on Hive, but that isn't why I am here.

Discriminating? You dont need to blog. I havent seen you involved with anything. Havent seen you contributing to Hive. I dont know you. I dont know what youre capable of. You havent shown me anything you did or can do, yet you make big claims. How is that discrimination?

>Furthermore it is frankly reckless and not a little weird to judge business plans by somebody's track record as a blogger.

Where is your Hive track record? What have you done so far? Again... you cannot expect anyone to take you seriously with claims like you make without having anything to showcase.
How is that weird or reckless?

>I suspect if we count up all the SPL games I have played continuously for over three years, I have been on Hive more than you! Maybe we gamers should get some credit for that...

Ive played SPL since launch. Owned cards before there even was a game. So, no... you havent been here longer than me as if that matters at all.

SHOW THAT YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU CLAIM TO BE CAPABLE OF. Even a part of it. Go network. Deliver something to SPL, lets see if you can do something there. Deliver something to Hive.

You rode in on a bicycle and claim you can get a bunch of Ferraris here.

You need to beat the skepticism. Not call people that are reasonably skeptical unwelcoming and not open.

In which ways do you think I should contribute to Hive?

Indeed, which ways to contribute on Hive are there?

To me, it is primarily just the platform Splinterlands runs on. As mentioned above, it is only through the kindness and patience of others that I have come to understand Hive is more than that.

As to discrimination, you keep refusing to listen to me cos I lack hive profile. That IS discrimination.

The way to know if you can take someone seriously is you listen to what they have to say and decide if it stacks up.

You have not done that, you have made up stuff, hurled accusations, and basically done everything but listen!

Frankly, listening to me would have taken less time than this frustrating chat has!!

I have no literally idea what you are on about when you say contribute before you will listen. If you won't listen then I can't contribute.

It is by getting to know each other that we can build trust, not by some random blockchain data.

Telling me to go network is hilarious advice, cos I am trying to network with you and other hivers and you keep rebufffing me.

Consider this, if I am even halfway onto something, that is significant for both hive and splinterlands, and if, as I believe it can, this plan works out, it could be transformative for both.

Sure, kind of big claims perhaps, but what if it is all true and possible? You owe it to yourself, hive and splinterlands to at least find out, right?

Maybe it is you that needs to beat your own scpeticism....

Come on, man, loosen up and let me talk with you. I promise not to bite! Or suck!!

> It is by getting to know each other that we can build trust, not by some random blockchain data.

In so many words, that's all he's trying to tell you. Get out there, get to know people. Some will listen. Some won't. Some will be rude, some will be kind, and all things in between. That's life. If you have big plans, you have all the freedom in the world here to act on them. Some might approve, others might not. That's life. Your success is your responsibility. It's not up to anyone else but you.

Yes, you are very right!

I am doing my best to meet people, which is mostly happening on discord, where many hive communities hang out.

Community is very important to me and I don't want to act in isolation as some might do, I want to build a group that shares the vision and purpose of the new dao.

LB is both an OG Splinterlander and a Hive Witness, so I thought he would at least want to hear my input, as my plan can help support both the chain and the game, but apparently not.

As you said, some might approve. others might not, which is of course perfectly fine and to be expected. To be ignored and belittled based on an absence of facts is what sticks in my throat a bit though, but it won't remotely deter me. 😀

The most successful street performer right now is surrounded by a crowd of people enjoying the music. At the exact same time, that street performer is also the most annoying human on that corner, getting a lot of dirty looks. At the exact same time, that successful street performer is also the most ignored human in the vicinity. For every 1 that stops to listen, 200 keep on walking and pay no attention. That's what success looks like.

I like that, good one!

Ugh man.. Post it on Hive in an open forum. Make it concrete, ping me, ill read it.

It's always been my plan to do that, when the time comes...

However, as someone with not much profile, as you so kindly pointed out repeatedly, I was, indeed am, far more concerned about being voted out of existence by people I don't even know.

Maybe you don't see some of the aggressive upvoting and downvoting that goes on on hive but, as a noob who has only been here a relatively short while, it scares the crap out of me.

That is why I have been trying to introduce myseñf and the plan to people such as yourself.

I can do a lot but I can't do everything and building a great team, largely based on splinterlands and hive, is mission critical, as well as offering employment to people in our community.

Come on man. Someone will downvote your idea post. Nonsense.

Aggressive downvoting? What aggresive downvoting? The few scammers? Idiots working against Hive? No one proposing anything of value has ever been downvoted here for that reason.

I see it all the time and get told about other people's experiences too, and it really happens. You are possibly too close to the wood to see the trees....

My original comment here triggered many more words for me to read. I hope I'm not interrupting.

May I offer you some advice?

yes please

You'll never find the perfect world.

I realize that sounds like an evil fortune cookie, so I'll take your situation I'm reading here and put it somewhere else.

Let's say you have a lot to offer and you think Chicago is the place it all needs to happen.

Do you say to yourself, "I have so much going for me and such great things to offer this world. But since people get shot here in Chicago, I'll do nothing instead."

Sure, some people do get shot in Chicago. Majority are not walking around with wounds though. Why? And why are there so many others able to achieve great things in Chicago? Do they have superpowers? No. They're regular people just like you, getting shit done.

Now look around this platform. If you feel this is the place to get shit done, you're wise to be aware of issues, but don't forget to look at the majority not experiencing those issues and actually getting a lot of shit done.

Don't let your fears hold you back.

There. I turned it into a normal fortune cookie.

Have a good one.

Cheers!

I've been on the chain 8 years in just a couple of days. Over the years I've seen some aggressive downvoting, usually overblown egos having a pissing match. Often with collateral damage.

I've not seen a lot of that going on in the last couple of years so, I'd be curious to see what you claim and learn the story behind the downvotes. There is always a story, even if you disagree with it.

If you're not into blogging anymore, there is the option of using dBuzz and 'tweeting' to build a profile. They will show up in the All Posts section of your profile. If you're more into sharing pictures, there's LikeTu.

Hive is more than blogging.

Unfortunately, there have been plenty of rugs on the hive; some are made of 200k USD from hivers. However, in this particular case, I know Femi is working on a pitch deck and has meetings lined up with investors. Grandiose ideas need money. In this case, it doesn't have to be from DHF, but no one on the hive should say no to extra money coming in from outside.

I agree with the reputation part. But we should encourage ideas and empower people if they come to hive from outside. The HP a person owns should not be a sign of their dedication to hive. Time is the most important resource you can give to this chain, and the users, just like you, inspire many others to the time dedicated to hive.

>Unfortunately, there have been plenty of rugs on the hive; some are made of 200k USD from hivers.

Its a thing of the past. When it comes to grant approval or anything related to the DHF rugs arent a thing here simply due to the reputation aspect.

>I know Femi is working on a pitch deck and has meetings lined up with investors. Grandiose ideas need money. In this case, it doesn't have to be from DHF, but no one on the hive should say no to extra money coming in from outside.

No one is saying no to anything. He needs to show that he can actually do any of the things he claims. Those are big claims.

>The HP a person owns should not be a sign of their dedication to hive.

By design it is a sign of that in part. But if you dont have the HP you still need something to showcase. That is then even more of a necessity.

Hes not active on Hive. I dont know him. Barely anyone that isnt in the Splinterlands discord here knows him.
How reasonable is it to take anything seriously he claims he can do?
Its simply not.

He can still do all the things he claims he wants to do. Thats what decentralization allows. No one is stopping him. But he has to show something. Right now hes just some random unknown guy with an unknown value assigned to him. Hes just a big question mark.

I dont get why that is so hard for him to understand.

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand that people love Hive BECAUSE of Splinterlands, not because it has a desire to be a home for decentralised social media.

I would support that aspiration but a lot more would need to be done first to make that waaaaaay eaasier.

As to this reputation aspect, I am amazed you don't see the flaws with that or the way it drives an inward looking cliqueyness, which is exactly what you have done to me!

Fact is, you do not have enough info to be able to come to any opinion about my plan but that hasn't stopped you doing so, but apparently the fact I am not blogging on Hive means it must be dodgy.

I might be a random unknown guy to you, but that is also what you are to me, and so far only one of us has been unwelcoming and hostile, which kind of proves my point.

I really would not mind if you heard the details and then said this can't work for reason x or y, but all you have dome is prove my point that hive is indeed unwelcoming and not open!

Would you like to start over?

>I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand that people love Hive BECAUSE of Splinterlands

Not true at all. Decentralized social media or not.. Why someone uses Hive and for what is entirely a subjective thing.
Im here because its the only decentralized community blockchain where anyone can do absolutely anything they put their mind to and isnt subject to any central authority. Each person doing anything here is an authority!

>I am amazed you don't see the flaws with that or the way it drives an inward looking cliqueyness,

Its a community run blockchain. The entire point is that you build you value through being a part of the community. You can call it what you want but no one will approve of anything, even on centralized chains without you showing you can actually deliver something.

>Would you like to start over?

There is nothing to start over. Youre on Hive. Youre a Hiver like me. A generally unknown individual claiming you can deliver big things. Maybe you can. I dont know.

Show you can do something. Convince a few people. I will have no problem listening to you then. I might even support it. Right now your presence here is in its infancy.
Anything you want to make happen depends entirely on you.

There is a reasonable expectation from both sides. I can't profess to understand anyone's understanding. If we could summarise what we want to say in one sentence, we would have fewer paragraphs from talented people wasting their time in circular arguments.

Making stuff takes time, femi's ideas should still be empowered with help if he pitches them for validation/polish in the meantime. I know he is working on things which you have not seen yet.

"Come back to me when you have made a pre-proof of concept before I consider validating your idea seriously."

Is this a decent summary @lordbutterfly ?

It wont be enough. Anyone handling money coming from Hive, especially in cases like this needs to show he can both deliver and is trustworthy. He needs to deliver even the smallest part of what he claims he can do to be taken seriously since he is fairly new in dabbling with Hive workings.

What I did years ago was help return 200 thousands USD that were stuck in an escrow back to the DHF. Money that would never get back to Hive otherwise. From that point it was easy for everyone to trust me with Hive funds in all cases.
Im not saying he needs to do something big like that but he needs to deliver something, anything so people looking at it can say:

"Yeah, this guy can do some serious stuff and he put this amount of work for Hive or SPL. We can trust he can deliver more in the future."

There's this weird wave of people with no skin in the game or history who approach one and demand support because they'll be the gem who will bring in thousands. They gotta realize they're not the only one and that senior members of this community have heard that line over and over again with most of the time just being a ditch effort for some post rewards before they disappear.

You have dipshits fostering a negative attitude towards Hive and not many pushing back. Its a problem. Thats why theres a disconnect.

Its like having an enemy in your bed.

A group of people that are a part of the community actively working against it.

Oh shit. It's the deep state.

You know deep state is so deep that no one can ever know who they are. They might be mole people. Or Pegasuses with thick mustaches made of bronze and sprinkles.

haha. No.
Its a few guys I could name you right now. Just had run in with one of the aholes on twitter today. Theyre about as deep as a drunk Kardashian.

> Theyre about as deep as a drunk Kardashian.

I look forward to the day I too get to use this line.

[IMAGE: https://media.tenor.com/gQdWT9JTqcsAAAAC/smiling-javi-gutierrez.gif]

> Surely the Splinterlands community has enough HP to pass this and if not, I'd have to ask all how that's even possible.

It takes roughly over 15% of the total staked HIVE in the entire system to get a proposal passed, so I think that's an impossibly high bar to expect of any project. I would venture to guess that there is no other project on Hive whose active users have more HP combined than the Splinterlands community.

> For years we're told it brings value to Hive, so where is it?

I directly address this in the post:

We have purchased millions of HIVE tokens off of external markets, we have burned millions of HIVE tokens to create accounts, we have funded and initially designed and built two of the most widely used tools on the platform - Hive Engine and Hive Keychain - and we have brought thousands of users and tons of attention to the Hive blockchain during that time.

That being said, if you don't feel that this project has contributed enough to the Hive ecosystem, or will be able to contribute enough in the future, to warrant support from the DHF then I respect your opinion and your decision not to support the proposal.

> I would venture to guess that there is no other project on Hive whose active users have more HP combined than the Splinterlands community.

This. I'd be shocked if the Splinterlands community isn't able to push this through.

I'll hang back. I don't know enough about Splinterlands and the community. Sure, you've done some great things in the past. Currently I'm not even sure if the Splinterlands community wants this. So I'm waiting to see how everyone feels about it, so I hope they show up.

My position has already been explained here so I won't repeat myself, and I also don't expect you to read any of it but if you want to, you can. It'll help clear up where I truly stand on this.

If it gets to the point where everyone has done everything they possibly can and still need help, that's when I'd feel confident supporting this is a good idea. It would be incredibly irresponsible of me to vote blindly or speak for a community I can't say I'm a part of.

> For years we're told it brings value to Hive, so where is it?

My words again. The value can be observed when your community steps up to help on the day you need them the most. I want to see them participating in this rather than me participating so they don't have to.

P.S. The Hive Keychain Development Proposal is something I already support.

You say it yourself, the problem they have is that without any criteria, they joined the crypto game boom thinking that it would last forever.

The Gaming community and the Crypto community do not hold hands, if you want a game to succeed you must build community, you must think about the community and that will generate profits, it does not work to create a game thinking about making a lot of money because people will invest time.

Splinterlands is NOT fun, it is NOT optimized and although surely you have a bubble of users that are active and will criticize me saying that it is the best game of their life, the amount of users is NULL compared to other TCG in the market, can it compete with Heartston? NO, can it compete with Legends of Runeterra? NO (and this game is dead), Can it compete with Pokémon TCG? NOT even close, Does it compete with Magic? NO, Does it compete with its direct rival Gods Unchained? NO.
Why is it that all these games I mentioned have more community and active users than Splinterlands? Surely they will tell me that it is because of the support of big companies, and now they will come with the excuse that Splinterlands does not make money and Splinterlands does, that is where they are wrong, because if Splinterlands was such a superior project, the users would come alone, it is impossible that people do not want to earn money having fun and if money can be earned, logic says that the game is not attractive.

In your post more than a request for help, it seems a threat, literally between the lines I read "Either you support us, or I'll have to go to another platform...", it seems absurd and aggressive, but I also recognize that Hive is a platform of few users and little active, even those who no longer use Splinterlands know that a lot of movements are given through the game and that removing it from Hive is to cut a leg to Hive.

The migration does not benefit anyone, it is a gamble, maybe leaving to another platform everything will be better, you get investment and get more users, as they may remain stuck at the same point and lose users who do not know about the migration, what will they do? Ask people to make Tweets with a referral link?

The Gamer community is wide, but the one who knows it knows what a kickstar is, and knows that good games don't need 500.000 USD (Approximate) for their development, there are GOTY winning games that were developed with less than 40. 000, but I guess that for staff and others you will have your accounts, it would be good that at least you take the time to desglozar as they will invest that money, because you could easily take it invest 20% in the game and the rest invest it in a house with a pool for staff to go to relax, Is it the case? I do not think so but with your message is left to the interpretation of the user.

"Splinterlands is NOT fun" says who? Dancing is NOT fun... Drinking is NOT fun... Watching a movie is NOT fun... You might not like the game but it's actually fun for a lot of people. I, in fact, played Hearthstone at a high level for close to 10 years and I ditched it in favor of playing just Splinterlands. Different strokes for different folks...

It sounds generalist but it is not, if you are a regular player of Splinterlands is because you find it fun and that is fine, it is your opinion about the game; Venezuela is a baseball country, where all the stadiums of the country are constantly full because people find it fun, soccer instead has huge stadiums but the soccer community is not big, and for the rest of Venezuelans it is not fun. What is the point of building a 50,000 person stadium so that only 2000 people attend?.

If the Splinterlands player base is so poor, the question is not if it is fun for you who are part of it, it is if it is fun for those people who decide not to come in and play.

Well, playing web3 games in general is a niche in itself so it's normal that SPL's player base has a hard time growing just based on the fun factor. I've got more than 25 years of web2 gaming experience and I know that most of the "web2" gamers still won't touch a blockchain game with a 10-foot pole. That's an obstacle web3 gaming has yet to figure out how to overcome. Moreover, TCGs are a niche of their own as well - not really that mainstream in web2 either, so that also makes thing difficult but definitely not impossible. I truly think @yabapmatt has what it takes to elevate the game to the needed heights both in terms of gameplay and sustainability.

You are wrong bro. Im a gamer and I can assure you splinterlands is fun.
Same as football is fun but american football is boring, same as how basketball is fun but car racing is boring.
Eveyone has personal opinions and interests but basing an economic decision on them is just dumb.

Here they are asking for 500K, the games are designed to be fun... If Splinterlands is for such a small community, fun is a determining factor.

I don't care if 10,000 regular users of the game come to tell me I'm wrong, I'm used to work and moderate large gaming communities; I really respect that there are people who enjoy Splinterlands, but I go a step further and talk about what the game has to do to get out of this absurd bubble of 50 people believing they are a crowd.

I strongly agree with you that Splinterlands is not fun. The new game Soulkeep pales in comparison to Crazy Defense Heroes (which also has crypto elements.)

The only people who find Splinterlands fun are people who have not played any other games or hope to derive ROI. (Which is probably still easier to do in Splinterlands.)

Remove the monetary value, who is left?

And, yea, some people will find any game fun, but there are niche indie games too, and I doubt the majority will find those games fun.

I'm more willing to play Magic the Gathering Arena without earning money than play Splinterlands (after rewards tanked.) And you can argue that it's play to earn too! Because it's theoretically possible to win USD.

Splinterlands as it remains is far too expensive compared to other alternatives. For a tier 1 competitive deck, it's far cheaper in other games. (Sure those games don't have renting, but renting is a copout.)

For Splinterlands to become fun, that would require several fundamental changes, some of which greatly dilute the value of holdings that people have.

I'll throw in one more competitor of the same genre: Teamfight Tactics.

As long as wallet beats skill, I don't think Splinterlands can see mass adoption especially because the cost is so high. But if skill surpasses wallet, then that means, everyone who hasn't sold tanks to near zero.

If anyone wants to make a serious argument to play Splinterlands over any of the competitive games listed, I'm all ears. The argument must not hinge on the possibility of making money.

I hope this would pass. Matt has a clear vision for the future and Hive would definitely benefit if Splintelands succeed.

Thank you Matt for the proposal, which is obviously very important for the future of the project. In general, I like to support projects, whether old or new - with this proposal, which involves a large, long-term daily sum, I would like to get a few questions answered or ask questions that seem important to me and possibly others too:

> but if we're unable to raise the capital we need from the DHF and/or other investors who support us staying here, then it is possible we could be forced to do so at some point in the future.

So if the proposal doesn't turn out in favor of Splinterlands, how strong is the development team behind Splinterlands to convert all assets, tokens, NFTs and core smart contracts to another chain and would the costs for this even be affordable?

> This year we are planning to launch a major marketing campaign - hopefully coinciding with the beginning of the next major bull market in crypto.

Should users who are for or against this proposal expect to find out more details about the marketing plans? These should already exist.

> hiring a top web3 marketer and running a number of marketing and promotional campaigns to bring a significant amount of attention and active, paying users to the Hive blockchain through Splinterlands.

If another agency or whoever is hired here and this is being passed off as a marketing campaign through the Splinterlands books, shouldn't detailed payment details be included here if the primary goal of the proposal is marketing?

There are many open questions that many people have accumulated over the long term of Splinterlands and are specifically expanded upon with this proposal, so I'm looking forward to talking to you personally in Split about such topics.

> So if the proposal doesn't turn out in favor of Splinterlands, how strong is the development team behind Splinterlands to convert all assets, tokens, NFTs and core smart contracts to another chain and would the costs for this even be affordable?

We have no intention of moving off of Hive whether or not this proposal passes. If the DHF chooses not to support us, then it is more likely that we will at some point be forced to sell the company or take in investment from outside sources who may want to move the game to another chain, at which point I will not be able to prevent that. In those cases the funds and resources to move will come from the purchaser/investor.

> Should users who are for or against this proposal expect to find out more details about the marketing plans? These should already exist.

I am not a marketer and we do not have any marketers on the team currently, so we do not have a specific plan for marketing. The goal is to use these funds to hire an experienced web3 specific marketing person or company who we will work with to build out a marketing and promotional plan which we can then share with the community and implement.

> If another agency or whoever is hired here and this is being passed off as a marketing campaign through the Splinterlands books, shouldn't detailed payment details be included here if the primary goal of the proposal is marketing?

This is not a proposal to implement a specific marketing plan. This proposal is to provide general funding to the Splinterlands company and we will use those funds in the way that we feel gives us the best chance of success. We currently believe that will be via a significant marketing campaign as we mentioned, but ultimately it will be up to the company to decide how the funds will be used.

.

A while ago you had a token worth about 0.03 cents, not happy you put a wild pass permit to try to reduce the players (you could encrypt something in the custom json that worked to remove bots), now the token is at 0.006 cents... In games Online games normally give daily gifts for people to come and get the gift, in Splinterlands they try to do the opposite... Have you tried another strategy instead of just trying to sell packs infinitely and adding new rulesets?

To get new players, just give accounts for free with a restriction that only releases the withdraw of the token after collecting 10 dollars for the starter pack, do daily events giving something just for people to log in, do a different ranked for these players with few ruleset, maybe make a mobile version with ads to release things...

If the game continues like this, in the future I see the game being sold to another company.

And about this proposal: If this request were made elsewhere, you would give something in exchange for support, give about 200k packs of Cards to HIVE DAO, so the HIVE community can use this to do some event that can benefit the community.

Or maybe you can give personalized skins with the HIVE blockchain theme, imagine one skin per day for 356 days for each user who has more than 100 HP*, this would make HIVE users in general have to enter the website to get the airdrop, So you need some way to convert everyone into a player. Win Win. Everyone likes things free, but this is a bait to attract players.

I like this type of concept.

The old system of working to get daily reward chests did this. We all played each & every day & paid for "old" cards to increase CP & advance leagues, now I will not play at all. I collect my staking rewards & cry about the money I spent buying cards that are now useless to me.

> To get new players, just give accounts for free with a restriction that only releases the withdraw of the token after collecting 10 dollars for the starter pack

This is something we are actively working on as we revamp the onboarding experience. Please keep in mind that it is not as easy as it is with traditional games, however, since "accounts" on Hive have a cost associated with them and if we give them away for free this will (and has been) exploited. That is part of what the $10 spellbook purchase covers. That being said, we believe we can still make this experience work, but it does take more time and planning than you might expect.

> And about this proposal: If this request were made elsewhere, you would give something in exchange for support, give about 200k packs of Cards to HIVE DAO, so the HIVE community can use this to do some event that can benefit the community.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Many blockchain ecosystems offer grants for projects to build on their chain and the benefit to the grantor is that they get a potentially big project bringing people and money into their ecosystem. This is no different. As for your suggestion of the Hive DAO receiving card packs, this would be up to the SPS DAO to decide as they are the ones responsible for the distribution of the card packs and it is not something the Splinterlands company is able to do on our own. Additionally, I'm not sure how or if that would even work, technically, for the Hive DAO to hold Splinterlands in-game assets.

Splinterlands and projects alike are quite important for our blockchain and I see this as a reasonable ask to help support it. People generally seem to underestimate the cost of things I've noticed. Anyway, this proposal has my vote.

> People generally seem to underestimate the cost of things I've noticed.

Maybe unbundling the use of money will help people to understand, think that there are games with good development that require less to maintain.

Yeah, I think @rivalzzz had some good questions in this comment section regarding that.

People don't realize how much it costs to build games, especially in web3.

Personally, after building CS for nearly three years now, I spent 155 K out of my pocket, plus 140 K from past sales. And we're just a small team of seven, with a commitment mostly part-time/free-time.

I can't imagine their operating costs, even when reduced to the bone.

[IMAGE: https://media.tenor.com/crLPl6MFh24AAAAC/iron-man.gif]

 
PS. Direct link to vote this proposal: https://peakd.com/me/proposals/splinterlands

Sounds about the same size as us, best of luck with everything!

It's a for profit company. This is nothing but a short term bailout.
They admitted they have lost track of and mismanaged funds in past. This is ridiculous. Without many supporting this having a financial reason (holding splinterland assets) this would not be supported

I don't think it's just about the assets, I hold no spl assets for example but I do think they have potential to be a great onboarding project for hive once they do better as they've proven that in the past. Ofc I think they could've done more to convert the players into more hive eccentric users but there was talks about improving there and they've acknowledged that funds were misused and there's been changes in the team around that so I hope it goes better for them in the future for both them and the players and hive.

I just don’t buy it. They’ve admitted total misuse of funds in past and I think this is rewarding a company that frankly is on the outs due to there extreme misuse of funds to there own admission…

That said I do agree not all are voting because of personal assets and I know you especially aren’t. I believe you truly believe in it helping our platform and I respect your take 100%. I just don’t see them bringing much to Hive at this point and I see and hear from many here they are tired of the mismanagement and have checked out. But again I very much respect your sincere opinion! Cheers! 🍻

Yeah, I guess I don't see it as "rewarding" them but helping them out when they're down and in general there's a lot of funds going to way less impactful things from the DHF in my opinion from what I've seen over the years. I don't know much about spl these days, haven't had time to look into things deeply as I've been busy with my own things but I trust the person I believe is in charge now, yabap, and I hope whatever funding they may receive from hive will help them out. I also know that they've also asked for funding from their own DAO and are powering down all the hive they bought at much higher prices which is something I realize must suck as I've been in the same situation often so I can emphasize with that and realize they really must be desperate/in a dire situation and I'd hate to see the project just die off/go away.

It's difficult to tell how much impact this funding will have and when the markets will decide to let overlooked decentralized projects get some funding but I know there's many projects on Hive kind of in the same boat, either waiting/delaying things or trying to cut costs in any way they can. Don't know which will survive/make it through and flourish after but all I know is that Hive itself will survive thanks to the work the blocktrades team have put into making it as scalable and easy to run as possible.

Matt, with all due respect for what you´ve created, you´re way to much focused on a technically perfect product and you are neglecting basic business principles.

this proposal is the best proof for it. You´re trying to get money from the hive community because you´re so stuck in the vision of a technically perfect product.

Yes I agree. Hive is the best possible chain from a product and user perspective - and that makes it to the absolute worst chain for business.

There are multiple VCs that are not locked to certain chains and even those won´t invest into splinterlands. Because they put business first - and you can´t do good business on hive in the needed scale. The entire structure of it isn´t primed for that.

Take splinterlands off hive. Find someone to help you in the bussines managment tasks and that can help you identify the biggest synergy between a technically perfect product and a product that sells.

You´ve build argubly the best product in the play2earn ecospace. Now for the love of god go find a way to sell it.
You won´t be able to do that by getting money from hive, that is basically dependend on splinterlands, just to push more money into developing the technically perfect product. This circle isn´t the phonix rising, it´s the tombstone.

100% agree. Crypto money will never come to SPL if it stays on Hive, which at this point IS "SPL-chain".

So what's the goal? Staying on Hive as long as you can be sufficient? Or make the game successful?

Since I joined, I have always been convinced that SPL biggest issue was Hive. We even moved from a "free" bridge to a paying bridge. Now people pay a tax to Terablock if they want to bring money to the SPL ecosystem.
The reason SPL took-off is because of the SPS airdrop. The reason SPS gained value is that it had been released on BSC during the p2e craze. I would never have joined SPL if I knew that SPS being on BSC was only a marketing gimmick and that the game had extreme ties to Hive instead.

Sorry but you've got 16 Hive Power and you've been here since September 2021, almost 3 years at this point. You have a vote yes, but I don't really think your opinion of Hive can hold any water since clearly you're not invested in the chain at all.

Seems like the common "let's jump on an alt account to voice something I wouldn't say on my main".

Ah fair point, very likely! Cowards lol

You say Hive is SPL chain, but the SPL community is struggling to mobilize less than 10% of the existing stake for a vote. Math doesn't math.

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That most Splinterlands players don't invest in HIVE doesn't necessarily mean that HIVE isn't perceived as 'Splinterlands chain' from outside of the ecosystem.
One criteria could be who causes the majority of transactions on the HIVE blockchain.
Another would be to check if search engines like Google show more results concerning Splinterlands or HIVE.
Interesting would also be to compare the value of all assets (including their HIVE, but not only HIVE) in USD hold by Splinterlands players compared to the HIVE value in USD hold by non-Splinterlands players to decide which ecosystem is bigger altogether.

I think IF Splinterlands player would power down their SPS reserves to buy HIVE they would easily be able to let the proposal pass. If they will do that only time can tell (it lasts four weeks to power down 100 % of the SPS stake).

No idea about outside the ecosystem, but it's certainly perceived as such by some parts of the splinterlands community. That perception is flawed though. A bunch of custom_json transactions don't mean anything by any relevant measure.

Hive keeps working without splinterlands and/or hive-engine. If they want to split they would have to rewrite their whole systems though, and even if they could find funding for that there's still the issue of transaction fees on alternative chains.

IF splinterlands players would power down their SPS to invest into hive, that would crash the splinterlands economy, and send hive. There's not a lot of liquidity for either of them.

Sure, HIVE keeps working (and will do so), but also neither attracts much attention from outside nor really lots of new (longterm) users.

> IF splinterlands players would power down their SPS to invest into hive, that would crash the splinterlands economy ...

Well, there is nothing much to crash anymore. :)
However, the altogether value of SPS in USD still shouldn't be underestimated.
If more clever they should have started the conversion process of SPS into HIVE quite some time before launching the proposal to get a better price when selling it slowly.

> ... and send hive ...

... to heaven? :)

Yes, the liquity is so low that everbody who would buy huge amounts of HIVE within a short time span would increase the price significantly (and make the rich HIVE whales even richer).

I am personally rather neutral in this matter and have no clear opionion what might be best for Splinterlands. If Splinterlands won't get funded from HIVE but get real support from another chain, maybe it will be worth a try to change (before dying anyway). A successful Splinterlands on the otherside might be benefitial for HIVE, too (maybe should then stronger encourage their users to use HIVE also apart from playing Splinterlands only).

Hey @pharesim. What's your take on the proposal? What would it take to get you to support it?

A plan for the funds would be a good start.
And not just marketing - the game needs some serious improvements if they want to attract and, more importantly, hold users.

Some kickback to the DHF would help too.

Pay to Play you mean cos this is definitely not Play to Earn anymore with the season pass for wild.

move splintersland to ronin and you sell 5 million packs in first day.
there are money and people that love games ,this hive peoplea are losers and they will fail in this bull market , i will vote with my 70k hp but will not do anything

Actually, I don't agree HIVEians to be "losers", but I would prefer people to discuss with words instead of downvotes. :-)

The game has been completely mismanaged for years, rather than directly ban bots you completely broke the game economy with poor decisions that forced people to leave. I personally think this should'nt pass with the current state of the game, no point throwing good money after bad. Its not like droves of people are coming to Hive for splinterlands anymore, 500k would be better spent(wisely) on marketing for Hive.

Exactly. If this proposal was to fund the KYC process to get rid of bots rather than the ridiculous Season Pass to play wild it might get support from the wider community. Having said that we all know it will pass anyway thanks to the whales who don't actually care about anything except pushing smaller accounts out of wild (or the game in total) so they can have an easier win.

What were the recent mistakes and what have you learned from them?

This article does not at all give enough information to deserve funding. You are asking for a lot of money and anyone with a critical thought in their head would ask you to work much harder than this for funds.

What if you continue to fail after funding is approved and you move anyway? Can you give guarantees that won't happen?

> What were the recent mistakes and what have you learned from them?

This was addressed in the post in the "How we got here" section. Had we remained focused on Splinterlands and not building a million other products and conserved funds rather than spending them all under the assumption that a bull market would continue we would not be in this position right now.

That had been my (@yabapmatt) position all along, but I was not the CEO at the time and not in a position to make those decisions. Now that I am, I am doing what I can to turn things around and I will not make those mistakes.

> anyone with a critical thought in their head would ask you to work much harder than this for funds.

We have been working hard for 6 years now, and I believe we have done quite a lot to benefit Hive over that time.

> What if you continue to fail after funding is approved and you move anyway? Can you give guarantees that won't happen?

That is always a possibility, and no one can guarantee success. Obviously we have a higher chance of being successful here on Hive if we have additional funding, but it is up to the Hive stakeholders to decide if the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

[IMAGE: https://media.tenor.com/4UuzcpDT9joAAAAC/carnage-give-me-your-money.gif]

Personally, @splinterlands @yabapmatt I hope this proposal does not get approved because I believe Splinterlands deserves better.

Actions Speak Louder than Words

Hive has shown over the years that they have not taken the necessary steps to market, promote, and incentivize the developer community to build on its blockchain. Unfortunately, the writing is already on the wall.

Go Where Your Valued

There are much bigger players out there spending REAL MONEY to fight to become one of the top blockchains in the space. As Splinterlands has yet to launch their validators to fully decentralize their game, this is a perfect time to migrate the Splinterlands ecosystem to another blockchain that better values your community and their own blockchains growth.

There Are Better Alternatives

Although HIVE may be better from a technical perspective, that often never results in a project becoming the winner. User experience and marketing trumps technical capabilities every time. Splinterlands is a game targeting mass adoption, and to effectively do that, the game needs to easily onboard non-crypto users via various methods such as account abstraction, greater Web3 accessibility, scalability, and mobile-first user experiences. Solana, Base, and even Polygon are focusing their efforts to meet these needs for their users and developers.

The time has come to part ways...

Upvoted, because I don't like it if users get downvoted just because of having different opinions.

Enjoy paying a tx fee for every move in the game.

Or they could just finally ditch the promises of decentralization, not having validators after 6 years is unacceptable, why even keep pretending. Just run the game on their own servers too.

HIVE has the practical use potential to be one of the best (if not THE best) chains for game devs to build on. But this is unknown. Splinterlands has the potential to help bring HIVE into the mainstream spotlight as a superior gaming chain.

No brainer. We are spending over 200,000 Hive since the start of this year alone on a stupid rally car that returns no ROI whereas we know Splinterlands is tried and tested the biggest attraction to Hive. You have my vote.

Lol yeah a good reason for a vote

$WINE

Thanks for the $wine. very sophisticated. I like it. What year is it? Does it have the nice deep punt?

It was. It's not anymore. This is a bailout of a for profit company. This won't end well. And I gotta wonder how many supporting this are doing so because they hold splinterland items and have that value in mind. This is a for profit company that has been around 7 years, this is a bad choice.

Got my vote!

I find it ironic that quite a few people are coming out of the woodwork to complain about Hive and this proposal, yet have little to no stake despite being here for years.

There are leeches everywhere, and would go wherever they can leech off someone else apparently.

To clarify a few things, as myself and the project I'm building were somehow mentioned in this proposal:

The primary reason I chose EVM over Hive is fundamental. Hive does not support EVM smart contracts - yet. Smart contracts are the backbone of decentralized games, and EVM is the de facto standard VM. One could build their own L2s, but that's a lot of redundant work. Ethgard Legends is currently on the Base testnet, but it could technically be Arbitrum, Ronin, Oasis, or any other L2/L3 EVM-compatible chain. I've also not received any grants from Base. Their only incentives so far are gas-credits.

The secondary reason is that I believe EVM is the future, and becoming a proficient Solidity Smart Contract Developer has been a personal goal of mine for a few years.

Now, to also clear up any confusion about the rebranding to Ethgard Legends:

The primary reason the game rebranded from Splinter Royale to Ethgard Legends, besides the clear lack of funding and support, was for independence. As you can see from the new proposals, the future of Splinterlands is sadly uncertain. While I hope everything works out, building a game is difficult. Add in the technical challenges of Web3, and it's even more difficult. Making the game also dependent on another ecosystem, where the "mother-game" is struggling itself, is quite simply too much.

With this said, Hive is still like family to me. Being dragged into this as an argument, as the first official response and mention from Splinterlands to the project I've been working on for over a year, would be funny - if it weren't so sad.

PS: I know that VSC is being built on top of Hive which has planned EVM support. I appreciate their work - I really do. But for Ethgard Legends, I need a production ready EVM-compatible L2/L3 now, not in a few months or a year.

I appreciate the explanation here.

@vaultec

Yup, and instead of building out your own L2 on Hive, you could also use ZK Rollup on Polygon (via their CDK) or an L3 solution.

I was only trying to highlight what I believe was a big missed opportunity. Both Hive and Splinterlands should have done more to keep your project here.

Hi @yabapmatt
Hive is my favorite blockchain project and Splinterlands is my favorite blockchain game and I have been playing Splinterlands regularly almost every day for over 5 years in addition to being active on Hive.
I will vote yes on this proposal because Splinterlands has done more for Hive than so many other marketing projects that have cost so much and produced no real results.

>We are currently working on improving our onboarding experience to increase the conversion rate from new players signing up through spending money in the ecosystem, and once that is done later this year we are planning to launch a major marketing campaign -- hopefully coinciding with the beginning of the next major bull market in crypto.

At the same time, however, I hope that Splinterlands' policy on bots will change and that bots will finally be fought and eliminated because any marketing campaign about a bots-friendly game will fail.
There is no such thing as a successful game that tolerates bots and it should start from this point otherwise I will keep getting the same and recurring response when I try to promote Splinterlands outside of Hive: why do I have to play in a game full of bots?

I've never done a power down because I still see a lot of potential in Hive and I think Hive is one of the best player-side choices but I also think Hive has one big shortcoming that prevents it from attracting projects and developers: it doesn't have smart contracts...on this point any DHF would have the most support

> At the same time, however, I hope that Splinterlands' policy on bots will change and that bots will finally be fought and eliminated because any marketing campaign about a bots-friendly game will fail.
There is no such thing as a successful game that tolerates bots and it should start from this point otherwise I will keep getting the same and recurring response when I try to promote Splinterlands outside of Hive: why do I have to play in a game full of bots?

That is exactly what we have been doing. Modern format - the main format of the game and where new players will participate - has had bots banned for a while, and more recently the pass required to play in Wild has helped eliminate a significant portion of the bots from there.

How can you improve the gaming experience of a new player who enters Splinterlands today, buys Chaos Legion cards to play in the Modern Format with real players like him, and then finds out that when the new set of cards will be released he will be forced to play and use his Chaos Legion cards against bots and bot-farms and will also have to pay a seasonal entry fee (Wild Pass) to play against bots and bot-farms?

I support the rapid extraction of value via my tiny stake. It's probably more worthwhile than some of the other stuff passed in the past.

Spend. Spend. Spend!

You've got my support.

I do hope that more splinterlands players become Hive holders as well.

I do not play the game. Although I have sometimes regretted not getting involved when we were all on “the blockchain that shall not be named”.

I am curious about the business decisions that have led to this crisis. Also curious if real lessons have been learned and real systems created to prevent the same in the future. Because in the long run a business (even crypto based) should not only rely on the economy being bullish. A business should absolutely have the resilience to survive the downturn (still grow even).

All that being said, I’m willing to give you a chance. Mostly because if your proposal is successful, then it will open up the chances of other businesses getting funding to start on Hive with the intention of onboarding new members and growing the chain.

You got my vote, Matt!

Ill support this ofc. My recommendation would be to try and use some of the money to develop connections in the web3 gaming space, beyond standard marketing practices.

Also... if you can do try and foster a bit more the idea that the SPL community is in fact a part of the Hive community and in a decentralized ecosystem each of the members are responsible for the wellbeing of it.
If Hive fails or succeeds it did so primarily because of all of us that are a part of it."

Seeing some of these dipshits trash Hive on social media while being a part of Hive seems in direct opposition to the positive changes we all want to see.

Couldn't agree more. We're a battle-tested DPoS chain genuinely owned by the community.
I was first drawn to Splinterlands because it's such an excellent demonstration of Hive's capacity.

I have mixed feelings that make it difficult for me to decide.

I would vote for the proposal for:
- Splinterlands has given a lot to Hive.
- Splinterlands never asked for money from DHF for its development.

I would not vote for the proposal because of:
- It is not clear what the money will be spent on.
- No plans to improve the game are presented. It's 6 years with the same graphics.
- The tone of the proposal seems threatening
- A few months ago the Splinterlans community rejected your request in the DAO to receive 100K.

Would you vote for the proposal out of appreciation for what they have done, or because it will help Hive in the future?

I'll see how this plays out to decide if I support.

Yes it sounds like a threat, also my questions is, where was development for over 6 years? After blockchain gaming craze I don't see that if the project can support itself it will make sense to carry on with the community money without even saying what is going to be spend for.

Splinterland at some point suppose to have all kind of range of games with different cards but similar concept yet they passed opportunity.

I agree on these points, for me it is difficult to judge the amount of money, as I don't know the costs of the operation, the team, and I also don't play.

But I know how important the game is to Hive, I've already tested it and I know that many people joined Hive because of splinterlands.

But I would also like to see the roadmap and plans for using the budget.

Development? Team? Marketing?

Without a roadmap, it is even difficult to monitor whether what was promised is being fulfilled.

> It is not clear what the money will be spent on.

It's hard to know exactly what the money will be spent on, because it will be on whatever we feel gives us the highest chance of success, and that may change over time as different opportunities present themselves. We have specified that the intended use of most of the funds will be on marketing and promotion for the project.

> No plans to improve the game are presented. It's 6 years with the same graphics.

We don't currently believe that updated graphics is what is holding us back nor is it the best use of our limited funds. Our current focus is on improving our onboarding experience so that we can make sure we can capitalize on the marketing and promotion that we plan to do.

> The tone of the proposal seems threatening

It wasn't intended to be, and I apologize for it coming off that way. I really really don't want to move off of Hive and have no plans to, whether or not we get support from the DHF, but the reality of the situation is that we may not have a choice.

> A few months ago the Splinterlans community rejected your request in the DAO to receive 100K.

This is not entirely accurate. The proposal that was rejected was an option for the SPS DAO to pay the company to run a promo card sale, and have the DAO receive the funds from the sale, rather than the company running the promo card sale on its own and receiving the funds. The community preferred to have the company run the sale and keep the proceeds. Your bullet point makes it seem like the Splinterlands community declined to help fund the company which is not the case. I would also point out that the SPS DAO voted to pay the company $250k last year for the development of the Rebellion presale, and there are also two proposals outstanding right now from the company to the SPS DAO which I expect will likely be passed.

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it.

I understand that you can shift where the team and community feels good about, but you still need a basic plan.

You can't ask for 500K and say, hey we will keep you updated how we spending your money.

Give us some kind of plan. If you want to hire a Marketing company then let us know more details about them, who are they, what projects did they work on before, any ideas how they are going to promote not only SPL, but also Hive since the money will be coming from Hive community.

I will vote on the proposal although I believe that the future of Splinterlands lies in another chain. The way you present the proposal, I think you hope it doesn't get approved, because I'm sure you know the game would do better in other lands.

I think that could put an end to the issue of fictional players bleeding the project dry. But deep down, I would like Splinterlands to succeed in this chain, which is a real challenge. You can count on my help.

>Votare la propuesta aunque creo que el futuro de Splinterlands reside en otra cadena. Por la forma que presentas la propuesta, creo esperas que no se apruebe, porque estoy seguro de que sabes que al juego le ira mejor en otras tierras.
>
>Creo que eso podria poner fin al tema de los jugadores ficticios que desangran el proyecto. Pero muy en el fondo, desearia que Splinterlands triunfara en esta cadena, lo cual es un verdadero reto. Cuenta on mi apoyo.

How would "fictional players" exist less on other chains where it's way easier to create 10,000 addresses/accounts?

It's certainly a big problem both in other chains and in Splinterlands. And I think that not enough has been done to address that problem, which causes distortions, both here and in other blockchains. Part of why this support is being requested today comes from this situation.

>Ciertamente es un gran problema tanto en otras cadenas como en Splinterlands. Y creo que no se ha hecho lo suficiente para atender ese problema, que causa distorsiones, tanto aquí como en las demás blockchain. Parte de que hoy se este solicitando este soporte, deviene de esta situación.

Upvoted, because I don't like it if users get downvoted just because of having different opinions.

Thanks very much, friend.

👍

I'm a gamer myself, I work on a gaming company (still working for that said company). If you are a player of the game you want your voice to be heard by the company. Some companies do not communicate back to their player base, IMHO because they only see the $ sign on the users. This is scary I saw a lot of games that has potential and pffff gone. A game is base on the community aka users aka gamers not the company. The company only provides what the community wants and the money will start flowing in. Game examples.. Getting over it, Hallow Knight, Among us, Jump King etc. There are tons of games out there that is fun because that's the users wants to play. I want to try Splinterlands but I'm not in the card game (I played Yugi Oh Pentium era 🤣). I can support the game by buying lands and cards in that way I can get my investments back. With that said Splinterlands has value in the community and in the Hive blockchain. As a gamer we want the game to be better for us not for the company who created it. If this was done everything everything else will follow. You have my support @yabapmatt

Supporting👍

Got several questions but my biggest question is: Which guarantees do we have that Splinterlands won't move away after they have received the funding? I don't think it would be after 6months, but maybe after a year or 2 or... ?

You seem to bank on the next bullrun which would happen later this year, what if it won't come (yet)? What's the plan?

You speak about marketing, when I would ask such a sum, I would try to explain in detail what the plan for the money is. Why 500k, what are you gonna do exactly with the amount?

Anyway, I like it that you atleast admit that bad decisions have been made, acknowledging such a thing isn't easy. Kudos for that! 🙌

> Which guarantees do we have that Splinterlands won't move away after they have received the funding?

We certainly can't guarantee anything. We have no plans to move off of Hive whether or not we receive support from the DHF, but the reality of the situation is that we could be forced to if we have to sell the company or take in outside investment. If the DHF supports us, it reduces the chances of that happening, but it is always still a possibility.

> You seem to bank on the next bullrun which would happen later this year, what if it won't come (yet)? What's the plan?

The plan is the same no matter what happens with the crypto market - try to build the best product we can and promote and market it as efficiently as possible. Obviously crypto market bullishness makes that easier and more likely to succeed, but the plan is the same in either case.

> You speak about marketing, when I would ask such a sum, I would try to explain in detail what the plan for the money is. Why 500k, what are you gonna do exactly with the amount?

Our plan is to use the funding in whatever way we feel is best to grow the game and return to profitability so we will never again need to ask for help. Things change rapidly and opportunities come and go, so it's hard to say specifically what the funds will be use for beyond our general plan to improve the onboarding experience and begin running marketing and promotional campaigns.

The 500k number was based on looking at what we need for operating expenses, what we would need to hire a good marketing person/agency, and what we thought would be a reasonable ask for the DHF.

The proposal is interesting.

In my opinion, the first and biggest error was to raise the price of packs to 4$ and then even higher with the suggestion, that it could be even higher while berating people who didn't want to or just couldn't pay those prices.
After all, buying a few packs was not enough to be even competitive in Bronze.
Everyone with a brain could have predicted, that this would nosedive the potential for new players, for active players, for future advocates of this game, for multipliers, for genuine and natural marketing opportunities, and last but not least, for a thriving and growing player base.

I for myself dipped out after Chaos Legion, when I felt, that this turned into a money-grabbing operation, that insulted critics and wasn't open to normal players anymore.

I can only guess who was responsible for this shift, but I have a few quotes in mind, that didn't sit well with me at the time, while all the big influencers and the team itself egged those comments on.

The most egregious comment was along the lines of "This game is not for players, who just want to play and not want to spend a whole lot of money before they can earn it back. In a year, everybody who invests big will be better off. We don't want to be a project for everyone but for risk-takers."

Not word for word of course, I would have to dig through my archive, but the sentiment was exactly that.

It was pretty clear, that delusions of grandeur, and resentment against players without deep pockets had gripped parts of the team, and though I loved playing the game up until this moment, I was out.

I hope you turn this project around, I still have all my initial investment in cards and SPS in the game as well as a lot of good memories.

But in my opinion, every effort will be mute, if you don't reverse the terrible decision to raise the price of packs from 2$ to 4 and up, because blending up to 400 cards, is not feasible for 99% of potential players to want to buy as many packs to be competitive.
That's just it.
You could have had a thriving and growing player base even after the bull market in mid-2022. I strongly believe, this is the crux of the problem and I know for a fact that my decision and the decisions of a couple of players, whom I knew then pretty well had everything to do with raising the price, the potential to raise prices again in the future and the smug responses from parts of the team or big players who were influencing the decisions of the team that
"we don't want cheapskates and leeches".

Just my 2 cents. Have a good one.

"new players signing up through spending money in the ecosystem" until the Season Pass is removed to play in Wild this will only happen for a short while until new players realise that their cards are worthless once 2 new packs are released. They will then also abandon this game just like many of the original (up to now) loyal players who are now regarding this game as a scam & rug pull & the vast sums they spent as lost

Well said!

I don't know much about proposals and how this whole ecosystem works but I know that Splinterlands is undoubtedly the best web3 game ever. Hence my support will always be with you.😊🙏

This is very interesting. I did not expect a DHF proposal from Splinterlands, as I assumed they had raised enough funds to continue for years.

Having worked for several gaming companies, I can attest that building a game is very expensive. Here are some average monthly costs for key team members:

• Senior Developer: $6,000
• Mid-level/Junior Developer: $3,000-$4,000
• Technical Artist: $6,000
• Game Designer: $6,000
• Concept Artist: $6,000
• 3D Artist: $5,000
• 2D Artist: $4,000
• Animator: $3,500
• Sound Engineer: $4,000
• Blockchain Developer: $10,000

A small team of 10 professionals would roughly cost about $55,000 per month.

After reading the comments, I agree that SPL players should be more involved in the Hive ecosystem. The Hive community has been promoting SPL for a long time, but have we received the same level of promotion from the SPL community? On Web2 socials, we mostly see SPL players promoting SPL, not Hive, while many Hivians proudly promote SPL.

My question is, what will happen to Hive if SPL migrates to another chain? How significant will the impact be on Hive?

I believe SPL should stay on Hive, but @splinterlands and @yabapmatt should provide more detailed information about their plans. Since this involves Hive community funds, we need to know what SPL will deliver and how the funds will be used. Will Hive gain more users, or will Splinterlands see an increase in its user base?

Don't forget how it all started and that Hivians were the first investors, promoters and community builders of SPL. It's fantastic how the game has grown, but you guys can't say Hive never promoted SPL when a lot of us did.

I hope this succeeds!

As Always, I am willing to help in any way I can :)

As an old user from hive and steemit and a splinterlands steemmonsters user from prefork, I agree splinterlands needs to promote hive more we have enough real players to support this.

At the same time Hive after its fork has not promoted heavily as well and needs to do so to grow the community otherwise why did we leave back in the day we could have just stayed with Justin Sun, who now owns bittorrent BTT Steemit Tron and a few other major crypto assets including ETH to name a few. This could be argued as a failed civil war fork.

As others have pointed out we need more ramps to the hive ecosystem not the islands of games as people pointed out many in Splinterlands may well be unaware there is more out there in hive. Easy enough to add to a tutorial that leads to the splinterlands hive page rip splintertalk then people will discover a far larger platform and ecosystem exist's here too.

With regards to this proposal the Team could give something to the Hive Dao as well it's a win win promotion to build the chain and the game so it makes sense to me that as other Hive users mentioned Splinterlands needs to vote and engage here as well as one of the larger communities not just hivers.

Game wise daily quests is what grew splinterlands the game should go back to basics it worked tweaking it over the years without addressing bots as a part of how we got here and leaving steemit for hive and avoiding Justin Sun tron bittorrent and steemits monopoly is part of the heritage we share on the hive blockchain.

Fun times are ahead if we can build better bridges now if Splinterlands leaves the chain I'll be the ass that says lets just go back to STEEMIT and the Almighty Justin SUN! (Raises a pitchfork of time)

As Hivers we are on the same boat. But why do I feel like this...
[IMAGE: https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/mdasein/23xAw7Byd8WeQa6PhA1fza9qDpbwMV4TQWo2VbVrg49uFC15gNUTMhPstSfEtSkH3UsCK.png]

Hive is my favorite blockchain and Splinterlands is my favorite game, and I'm happy to be a part of both. I believe Splinterlands should remain on the Hive blockchain. I supported the proposal.

You've got my vote @yabapmatt
I have been playing splinterlands from 2019 and it's a great gaming project on hive. I want splinterlands to stay on hive and if this DHF can help them improve and plan better then it's good.

Personally I like this chain over other chains even over those big chains.

Especially like the IP of GLS, but unfortunately and sadly, so far it's far away from even its half potential which it's supposed to be. Players are leaving,less and less people are showing up in the community even the dev teams.

Pay us or else we move!! is what I am reading. I feel the words can be better phrased as "we will be forced to pursue other chains alongside hive." I understand that you are VC-backed, but if investment is your concern, then you need to be more clear on how the funds are going to be used to avoid any future mismanagement. To be clear, no one is asking for specifics, but a general use of funds: X for marketing, X for development.

Also, while I absolutely adore what you and aggroed have made since it introduced me to Hive and set me on the path of game development, it pains me to say that the ask is too much.

We have a full Windows launcher, an interactive Windows game and another roguelike coming at the end of this month with mobile releases coming next month, and this is at a fraction of your ask. Games in web3 take money, yes, but I have seen more cases of mismanagement, and I feel that if you are sincere about not repeating mistakes, you will share with us more details on what you are going to do with the funds and how you are going to ensure no misuse.

If this is uncomfortable, then that should not be the case, as you have obviously made pitch decks to investors, and they ask for even more details.

I truly wish for a revival for Spl, but I love Hive more than Spl.

> Pay us or else we move!! is what I am reading.

That may be what you're reading, but that's not what was written or at all what was intended or what is the reality. We have no plans to move off of Hive whether or not we get support from the DHF, however it is important to understand that if we are not able to support the game on Hive going forward then it's quite possible that we may be forced to move by a future investor or purchaser.

> I have seen more cases of mismanagement, and I feel that if you are sincere about not repeating mistakes, you will share with us more details on what you are going to do with the funds and how you are going to ensure no misuse.

Yes, it was seriously mismanaged which is what got us in this position. Since then, the company leadership has completely changed for precisely that reason. I don't know how we "ensure no misuse", but since the change in leadership we have reduced expenses immensely, stopped putting resources into anything except the core Splinterlands game product, and are working on improving the onboarding experience so we can start running marketing and promotional campaigns to bring more users to the game, and therefore to Hive.

It's definitely the impression I got. Respectfully you are a for profit company who's been around for 7 years. If it's not profitable now it's likely not going to be later. Respectfully a for profit biz shouldn't be getting these funds. Respectfully my opinion

Not to mention in reply above you admit funds at your company were totally mismanaged! This is crazy

Everything u said! I am so against this. It’s a for profit company and this just isn’t gonna end well.

Voted, This is the kind of stuff the DHF was meant for and I fully agree that Hive needs to be competitive and it's losing at that mainly because there's no incentives for people to build their apps on Hive through rewards or grants. This needs to change and applications will do FAR more marketing and promoting then events that cost just as much as what this proposal is asking. If this proposals fails my last faith in hive would seriously be over and I think that stands for a lot of people.

I agree with what the DHF should be used for, but it is a very vague spending outline, so I can't say yes (yet) to it.

I have been very dissapointed by the amount of good Proposals that were rejected by DHF. I even wrote some articles and that is the extent of what I could do. I only have 15K HIVE Power and I stopped buying HIVE a long ago in my disappointment. I don't plan to leave HIVE. But my interest has mostly shifted towards investing in DAPPs which care to expand to more users.

https://inleo.io/@vimukthi/we-are-using-decentralized-hive-fund-wrong-

Splinterlands is good...
I vote YEP; I hope it stays
Always shall I play.

haikuforyou

Supported!
An excellent explanation of the challenges that Hive faces and how we can help one of our flagship projects that has contributed so much through this difficult time.

I was just at Lou Kerner's crypto VC event in Tel Aviv and noticed that the VCs were focussed on specific chains. So I can confirm what you are saying.

I supported this proposal.
I want Splinterlands to stay in the hive and do well. I remember 2021 when things were great in the game.

Every other chain that could host Splinterlands is centralised. That's why they can offer devs millions to come to their chains. But every centralised chain will fail when the external money to operate it runs out. Hive is self-sustaining like BTC. Nothing else is.

What about hiring @lordbutterfly to do the marketing you are looking to do? He will probably achieve far more than others you might hire, and probably for a fraction of the cost.

What about making the game multi-chain? Instead of this or that chain. You will very likely be able to get funding to build the multi-chain aspect (including from the DHF). It could also tie well with SPS validator nodes, meaning those nodes can handle the multi-chain stuff. So one thing serves multiple functions. (And imagine all the functions it will serve if other Hive projects can also utilize it - and maybe help build it in the process.) To extend this further, there's probably good synergy with the EVM compatibility that VSC is building, i.e. people are able to sign Hive transactions with their Metamask wallet. Should be easy to tie into that.

There's lots and lots available in the community, it doesn't always come down to money. The community has plenty and plenty more than money that it can give you, and very happily. There's all sorts of people on Hive, and there's lots that has been done already and not used. This is an enormous unutilized resource. Share your challenges, speak openly about what specific troubles you are facing and what things you want to get done. And help will come to you. That's what this community does.

I would be starting basically from scratch. The people I got for Hivefest came from a lot of work in the background, pulling on sleeves and getting to know people that have 0 contact with Hive. Some very interesting names in there we will share soon.

That is basically the kind of work that this would require. I could do it... but a much better choice would be having someone that is already a part of the tightknit groups in the crypto NFT space. They need to find a degen for this that knows more degens. And i hate those guys. I consider most of them scum of the earth and the reason crypto lost almost all of its credibility. :)
I could do it... but someone already inside that ecosystem could do it far better than me. Question is if they could be trusted. And thats a question I cant answer.

well at least with this proposal more Splinterlands players will learn about social part of Hive. And maybe the worst part of it (not bad if they survive that they will like the nice part even more :) )

I support the proposal. I don't agree with some of the commenters that the tone is threatening --- reality is the game isn't free to run and develop, the current economic climate is garbage, and funds are needed. Salaries aren't cheap with the increased costs of living. It reads that SL is backed up against a wall right now, like all businesses that focused on innovation and not on some backroom deals.

Granted, the game needs some development and there's a lot of good ideas in the comments here. I'm reading this and I see this is what the money is for.

Half a million doesn't go far in this industry. That's sponsorship/visibility in two major conferences. I know Matt isn't a fan of conferences and this isn't what he'd allocate the funds to.

As promised I won't upvote you, lol, but it sounds reasonable what you are writing here! :-)

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Proposal 315 supported

Splinterlands has my vote.

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I spent whole night reading comments and stuff related to it. I will observe this proposals progress from far. I am thankful to splinterlands for introducing me to hive. Especially clove71 :)

How about listening to bulldog advice and restructuring referral system? Splinterlands lost interest of creators like bulldog. Time to find a common ground. Splinterlands needs marketing while twitch streamers want better referral system. I feel sad seeing clove71 and bulldog not making much from their referrals although they did heavy lifting for onboarding on hive through splinterlands.

This is really a test of whether decentralisation can actually work in a dynamic competitive environment where change is necessary or whether BTC (which does not need to change) is the only valid use case for decentralised blockchain technology.

Hive has to face the reality that while it is technically better, properly decentralised and self sustaining with a stronger community, there are all these cashed up VCs linked to other centralised chains that are offering devs millions to bring attractive DApps to their chain. I met a couple in Tel Aviv a few days ago. @yabapmatt is telling the truth on this.

Hive has the DHF and should use it to compete, at least to retain our flagship project.

Long term all these centralised chains will fail when the external funds run out because they are not self sustaining like Hive. DApps that move onto them will have to be successful enough to not only fund themselves but sustain underlying chains that are much more expensive to run than Hive.

But in the short term we face heavy competition to attract and retain quality DApps like Splinterlands.

Hive is writing the history of decentralised blockchains right now in this decision, as it did when we forked from Steem.

Lets make the right choice and not be small minded.

What if you fail? Will you ask for another half million? Will you ditch hive anyways? Maybe we will get farming farm the sequel?

> What if you fail? Will you ask for another half million? Will you ditch hive anyways?

Failure is always a possibility, and I will not ask the Hive community for additional help if we fail to deliver this time, nor do I expect that such a request would be approved anyway. As for "ditching" hive, we have no plans to move off of Hive no matter what happens with this proposal, however if we're unable to support ourselves and need to sell the company or raise outside investment we may be forced to, which is what I am worried about.

Getting funding from the DHF reduces the chances that that will happen, but it still remains a risk. It is up to the Hive community if that is a risk they want to take.

I would vote for it, if you are more transparent on how exactly the money is spent, with monthly reports at least and also forecasts. I know that level of transparancy is not usual, but I guess before a VC gives you a million he also wants to see some solid data first.
Without, the 500K could fizzle out like a drop in the ocean and in half a year you are nowhere and will ask for more.
By the way profits. Why not use some of your significant profits first, before asking from the community?

> I guess before a VC gives you a million he also wants to see some solid data first

It depends on the VC of course, but often VCs are actually betting on the founder or company leadership to figure out how to best use the funds to be successful rather than asking for very specific breakdowns of how the money is spent. We prefer to be able to be flexible with how we choose to use the funds as things change rapidly and it's very hard to predict what will be the best use of funds ahead of time. We provided a general overview of our growth plan, and we will use the funds in the way we think is best in order to achieve those goals.

> By the way profits. Why not use some of your significant profits first, before asking from the community?

We have unfortunately run through almost all of our profits over the past couple of years as mentioned in the "how we got here" section of the post. Asking for help from the community is a last resort and one that I am extremely saddened that we have had to resort to.

The @steemmonsters account alone is worth almost 350K$. So you won´t touch it at all but ask for 500K from the fund?

We have unfortunately been forced to power down and sell the majority of our HIVE stake from the @steemmonsters account over the past year or so in order to cover our operating costs. That $350k is not enough by itself to both continue to cover our costs and allow us to bring on a top level marketing person and run marketing and promotional campaigns, which is why we are asking for help from the DHF.

Additionally, we cannot power down all of our HP because we need enough to be able to delegate RC to our users.

Flagged to bring attention to my concerns. When you first started, you would take time to talk to the little guys. I've been playing since day 1 (and still do). I invested heavily and made a profit with this game, no lie. But some people stopped answering DMs and seemed to only cater to the bigger whales instead of the 'Hive community' you keep prodding on about. Like @coldbeetrootsoup, @spiritsurge, and several others, I would like a more detailed spending budget outlined. I cannot vote for the proposal otherwise.

This whole thing is very confusing, really. Is it because so many people have stopped playing with all the weird changes over the past few years and certain other things that never even popped up? Where are the guild boss battles? Where is the role play element?

DEC-B? Why.

Glint?

And now - vouchers just to play a season?

I like you @yabapmatt, you have done a lot of good for Hive, but this proposal is very vague. It almost seems more like a threat than an ask for help.

>I have no interest in moving the game to another chain, as I truly believe that Hive is the best chain to support our mission, but if we're unable to raise the capital we need from the DHF and/or other investors who support us staying here, then it is possible we could be forced to do so at some point in the future.

>We can already see this happening with projects like Ethgard Legends, created by top Hive witness @therealwolf, which started as a Hive game but has now moved over to Base chain. I know that Base has some significant incentive programs for projects to build there, although I don't know if that was the reason behind his decision to move the game.

>Either way, this is a big missed opportunity for Hive in my opinion.

Are we missing an opportunity?

> I would like a more detailed spending budget outlined. I cannot vote for the proposal otherwise.

I respect that opinion, and a few others have asked for the same. It's not something we feel we can provide right now because we just don't know specifically how this will be spent other than that we plan to improve the onboarding experience and begin significant marketing and promotional efforts. We will use the funds in the way that we feel is best to bring in more players and grow the product, but we don't know exactly what that will be or how much each piece will cost at this point.

> It almost seems more like a threat than an ask for help.

That wasn't the intention at all. It is actually a big worry of mine that we will be forced to move the game off of Hive because we have to sell the game or take in outside capital and I really don't want that to happen. I was just trying to point out the unfortunate reality of the situation.

I have a lot of respect for you @yabapmatt, and knowing how much you turn things over in your head I can imagine that seeing you in the current situation with SL must be very unpleasant.

However, I don't like the tone of this proposal. And I don't like the general sentiment of the Splinterlands Vs Hive community AT ALL. I won't go into the details which I'm sure you already know.

I'll use this comment to throw some questions in the air:

Instead of a ‘donation’, have you thought about proposing that the Splinterlands DAO ‘sell’ SPS to the Hive DAO?

SL receives the funds, X amount of SPS is locked in scrow and when times are better that SPS is sold by Hive.

Instead of abandoning hive completely, why not multichain'?

With the thousands of transactions SL does daily, I doubt very much that going to solana/base/enjin/polygon is going to improve in terms of UX (no matter how little tx costs, we are talking about a LOT of transactions, EVERY DAY). And then, I don't know to what extent we're talking about selling your ‘soul’ to the devil (VC's).

But I understand the point of exposure that other chains have and not Hive. Speaking in purely business terms it is the way it is.

Even if SL gets a bounty (from hive or another chain, it doesn't matter), I don't need to tell you that if the game doesn't make enough money in 6-12-18 months we will be in the same problem.

I will probably end up voting for the proposal (although I don't think my vote will be enough to make a difference either), but I still wanted to express some of these things I had in mind.

Lots of strength.

I think It's already multichain, right?!

When I refer to multichain I mean the fact that ‘SPS Chain’ is built with a more flexible approach that addresses running on multiple chains (instead of being ‘just’ a Hive L2).

In this way (maybe) Splinterlands could convince some external investor who would only invest if SPS was in Solana/Eth, for example.

Obviously I don't know the details, but this is what I was referring to.

> Instead of abandoning hive completely, why not multichain'?

We have absolutely no plans to abandon Hive in any way, regardless of whether or not we get support from the DHF. The proposal was simply trying to point out that we may be forced to if we are forced to sell the company or take significant outside investment in order to stay in operation. It's actually a big fear of mine that this might happen, and it is the unfortunate reality that I was trying to get across in the post, although it seems I didn't explain it well.

> I don't need to tell you that if the game doesn't make enough money in 6-12-18 months we will be in the same problem.

Yes, that is definitely a possibility. Receiving support from the DHF will certainly help our chances of returning to profitability but does not guarantee anything. It is up to the Hive community to decide if the potential reward is worth the risk.

Understood.

All things considered, I will vote on the proposal in the next few days.

Much appreciated your help with the proposal! You are my hero at the moment.

Your unvoting of return will secure the buffer as we are barely funded, you action we be the safety.

Many thanks

Hey azir, no need to say thanks though. I only care about Hive (and by extension about Splinterlands) and for that simple reason I want the best outcome for us all.

Right now I'm still voting for both proposals (Return prop + SPL + prop) since it's being funded atm I won't unvote the return proposal (for now).

I'll keep checking frequently, If I see that SPL losses the funding I'll unvote the return proposal by then.

I think that from Hive we are funding via DHF a lot of things that do not deserve to be funded. Vague targets, no reporting, etc.

I think we agree that SPL has screwed up in several things but it has something that the rest of the proposals don't have. Historical data and therefore results to show.

It deserves at least the benefit of the doubt. Let's hope we're not wrong about this.

Cheers mate :)

Yes. Agree on all that. Sad news is few hive people care about DHF and even fewer can impact because we don’t have enough stake. We can potentially change both.

For that reason we should keep working in a stronger 'middle class'.

But to do this we need something that could be very difficult to materialise: to get more people to see HIVE as a valuable asset to own. And the ‘how’ of this is itself the million dollar (or billion!) question. Topic for another day though.

Hopefully funding for SPL keeps secured. I'm happy to see how the development of this proposal has grown. I was genuinely concerned that the proposal would remain in limbo at 10-20M HP.

A stronger middle class is absolutely needed. I consider myself one. It’s difficult not to sell during good time when hive goes to 50 cents or higher. Many sold and left. Are they better off? Maybe. Are they impacting hive governance? No.

It’s a conscious choice and the long term commitment to the chain.

Also regarding your limbo comment; that was the view of many including the founders. So they never tried. I said you don't know the outcome until you try

I am glad they tried then. Hopefully we have all learned something these days and I am positively pleased.

Have a nice day.

While I can support this proposal, I do find it concerning. If SPL moves to another blockchain, Hive is dead. That makes this proposal rather precarious.

As proposed, this sounds like a bailout. I tip my hat to you for knowing you need the help and being humble enough to ask for it. But if the proposal is approved, how long will it be before it must be renewed? If the funds result in SPL being profitable again, will you renew or continue operating from your future profits?

I'd hate to see the proposal fail to get enough votes to approve it then see SPL migrate to another chain and kill Hive in the process. By the same token, I'd hate to see it approved and see SPL move to another blockchain a year or two down the road. For me, this spells doom and gloom for the blockchain

On a broader note, VC money is killing crypto. You can't have decentralization and venture capital money. VC money always comes with strings. Puppets belong to a master and that master is never decentralized.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer but realistic. This seems like a Catch-22. Hive needs SPL and SPL needs Hive.

We have no intention of moving to another chain, even if we do not receive support from the DHF, however if we find ourselves in a situation where we run out of funds we may have no choice but to accept funding from an outside source that may require us to move to another chain, among other things. The more funding and support we have here, the less chance there will be of that happening.

In the past, we were highly profitable and did not need to ask for help from the DHF or anyone else. The goal is to use these funds to get back to that point. It is certainly possible that we fail to do so, but at that point we would not ask for more from the DHF. I don't like having to ask for help now, and I don't plan to ever do it again.

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate the spirit with which you are approaching this.

I support @splinterlands. Hive is design for collaboration and we need to use our resource effectivelly. The VSC project will bring smart contract capability to Hive and it will help Hive compete with other chains. Love to see DeFi, NFTs, Runes, GameFi, RWA-Fi (aka HP Finance) on Hive.

Splinterlands makes me strong.

Hive is beautiful.

Right!😁

I really appreciate all of the discussion and questions coming out of this proposal in the comments.

I'd like to see the Team earn some revenue from game transactions. Is the reason they don't do that for "tax" reasons or a fundamental promise?

If they receive some consistent income, beyond pack sales, it can minimise the need to ask for handouts when it gets difficult.

I know it's not directly related to the proposal but it is a question I have considered during the Splinterlands journey. Maybe others have the same question (or maybe it has been asked before).

Good luck. Splinterlands deserves this. We need to be supporting actual creations instead of funding rally cars in some field somewhere.

Splinterlands DHF Proposal #315 supported

Having been on this blockchain for nearly 7 years, and playing Splinterlands for nearly 6 years, I have had interactions with many of you, and no doubt opinions of me cover the entire spectrum.

I think most would agree, at the very least, I am passionate about the things I believe in.

I found Steem/Hive in September 2017 and fell in love with the potential of this blockchain for businesses and games to build on. A love I still have, and to this day 98% of my crypto experiences involve HIVE.

When SteemMonsters/Splinterlands came along, I fell in love with the concept and the nostalgic MTG feel it had to me.

As the game started gaining traction, I thought the flood gates would open with other businesses and games coming to HIVE to build. Some did, but I still couldn't believe that there wasn't more.

Splinterlands continued to grow, and then caught a comet, and found itself bigger, shining brighter and at a speed that no one thought possible.

Almost overnight, a couple of tech savvy gamers with a cool gaming idea, @aggroed and @yabapmatt , went from running a small 5 person team working on a passion project to running a serious business with over a 100 person team.

The reality is that would be a tough situation for a seasoned CEO, with a business background, who has experience running medium to large companies to be able to manage all of the internal and external relationships, as well as maintaining a long-term vision in a successful way.

Of course there were going to be some big mistakes made. I am confident that @yabapmatt has learned a lot from that roller coaster and has been hard at work at bringing the game and the long-term vision in-line with a sustainable and successful approach.

There is no doubt that Splinterlands is one of the best ongoing advertisements for what the HIVE blockchain is capable of handling, in terms of users and actions, to other potential businesses and gaming companies looking to build.

Splinterlands has also onboarded tens of thousands of players and hundreds of thousands of accounts onto the blockchain over the years, and have even created a process for a new player to not have to even know anything about HIVE or blockchains to start playing, which is important for lowering the barrier of entry into the game (and blockchain) and improving the New Player Experience.

I do agree with what some people have said that Splinterlands players should also understand the importance of being a part of the HIVE ecosystem and powering up HIVE to help secure and support the chain. It is to this point why I have written this.

I think it would go a long way with garnering more support and traction for this proposal, and also show a planned, good-faith effort from Splinterlands, if @yabapmatt would earmark 5% to 10% of this proposals funds to be used for efforts to educate players and facilitate transitioning players' views to understanding the importance of also being a part of the decentralized HIVE community and ecosystem.

Thanks for your time and consideration,
Gank

[IMAGE: https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/sgt-dan/AK2CQ8A5LViWn7gvUrQVjerxRoisZ5weRpeFbKuSRN95BBSjyTfwsdRaHjgfoaZ.png]

Well said. Splinterlands has played a big part on the HIVE blockchain to be sure. Along with you, many of us have watched the ups and downs of the game.

I personally am voting for this proposal and will be encouraging the members of the #SBT community to do the same.

Got to say, love that art

Created the art above with leonardo.ai. Great tool to aid in creating art.

Good to see you brother Sarge! Hope all is well.

I definitely support Splinterlands on this proposal.
Just want to know where is the link to vote for?

To the best of luck, I'm in. Here are all proposals https://peakd.com/me/proposals/splinterlands

!invest_vote

Thanks for sharing :)
I did my part

Voted!

Voted!

The daily HDF budget is 230,572.290 HBD, which means this proposal is asking for only a small fraction of that and people are acting like it's a huge ask. Splinterlands is one of the biggest things Hive has going for it at this point. This seems like an easy decision, but what do I know?

This has our support

Supported!

Leading game on Hive and a strong team dedicated to supporting an engaged community.

No brainer for Hive to support from my perspective. If this community doesn't, it'll be easy for the Splinterlands team to find another chain / ecosystem that does.

I give my support to this proposal

Supported proposal 315

I've voted for this, a bit late because I was on a bit of a break.

Splinterlands is like an anchor tenant for Hive (if you know anything about retail and shoping centers). The relationship is a bit complicated because Splinterlands is a huge part of the traffic of Hive (which is an expense) but it's also a major reason for the chain to be kept going. I came to Steem then Hive through @apshamilton and he brought me in via @splinterlands.

Everything I've done on @v4vapp and @podping stems from this. Indeed I believe there are only 4 unique functioning uses of blockchains which can't be done any other way: finance, gaming, uncensorable text/social and my own Podping notification system. The last of these, @podping, is 100% inspired by seeing all the custom_json data which Splinterlands puts on Hive.

But I understand Hive is competing with a bunch of VC megabuck funded chains who will all offer big $$$$ to move the game to their chain and take a % and pump some other chain up (and then dump it and cash out). And much of the $$$$ value they receive will be spent on stupid fees running another chain.

Hive doesn't have the VC megabucks but we have the DHF: we can help out.

But in return Splinterlands should do more to make it known that it is only the UNIQUE properties of Hive and the truly decentralised, community ownership structure of Hive which makes Hive special.

That's what I ask to see back from @splinterlands in return for my vote. @yabapmatt @aggroed.

I can't afford to donate much but I can start playing the game and support it that was as well.

You got my vote.. thanks to @azircon for reminding me.

I wouldn't be here in the web3 world if it wasn't for Splinterlands. Since joining Hive I have interacted with many other areas of the ecosystem, including Hive Engine Ecency, PeakD, Dcity, Rising Star, Tribaldex and Splinterforge. The best part of the chain for me has been the enjoyment I get from Splinterlands, as well as getting to know other Hive users through my SPL guild, The Alliance. I'm a tiny account holder compared to most of you but in my time here I've bought Hive, posted blogs, shared Ecency posts on Twitter and with friends on whatsapp. It may be a small ripple in the pond but I hope with enough people like me joining the eco system we can still add some value.

I have not being on hive block chain for so long but I believe in the splinterland project, I also know that building a game is really really expensive. Given my status on hive, I can only wait and hope the witnesses approve the fund you need.

I don't understand how Splinterlands is a project with negative ARR. Incredible.

Hi Matt, I'm glad to hear you are doing what you can to stay on Hive - the absence of optimal marketing has long been a massive hindrance to the value and growth of Hive generally, so I am always interested to make the most of any move in that direction.

As you may recall, I launched a proposal via @strategizer not so long ago that aimed to perform crucially needed market research in order to establish some baselines for future marketing drives, not only of Hive itself but also for the various dApps. In general, the dApp creators supported the idea and voted for it - but in the end it didn't get funded. Unfortunately, I found it very difficult to even get any feedback from some of the larger stakeholders.

As I recall, I didn't receive any comments or input from anyone at Splinterlands and although Aggroed just apologised to me for that yesterday, I would like to gain clarity and clear a few things up before voting on your proposal. I obviously want Hive and Splinterlands to thrive - especially since I worked for quite a while on marketing Splinterlands TV.

a. I found during my drive to promote @strategizer, that there is a massively obviously divide among Hive users when it comes to marketing. There are those who do not have any professional experience in the field and who think it's fine to just brainstorm and hope for the best.. and there are those who have learned from the extremely well established digital marketing industry norms that while experimentation is all well and good, it is necessary to operate within a framework that is grounded in the scientific method and that is prepared with some degree of research, in order to not waste the marketing budget.
It is not an exaggeration to say that the divide here is extreme to me and in some cases it is highly alarming that so much budget is being spent based on whims and vague concepts.
I know that you have said that you want to use the DHF funds to pay for an external marketing agency - however, the funds given to ignite marketing previously are a clear example of how this can actually lead to next to zero benefit. This is, to my mind, partially due to the complexity of web 3 and the willingness of agencies to take money regardless of whether they really know what they are doing or not. The best way to handle this is to ensure a continual process of close monitoring, analysis and refinement right throughout the marketing and growth process. I know from experience that many agencies are nowhere near cut out for this, yet to the untrained eye they seem very professional.
Can you provide me with any insights into how you intend to tackle these issues and also explain whether or not you are open to feedback from the Hive community on such high level decisions as which agency to use - or at least which priorities to focus on when picking one?

b. I don't know if you are aware, but Inleo's marketing proposal, which was funded a few months ago, was based on the idea that they would repay the funds if they didn't achieve certain growth goals - are you open to that kind of approach with your proposal?

c. I personally think that what Hive needs as a high priority is a rock solid on-boarding system that has professionally written educational text and videos built-in which leave no room for misunderstanding when new users approach Hive and try to orient and set up a presence. Are you open to developing this kind of feature set for Splinterlands and open sourcing it so that other dApps can also benefit and everyone can combine forces to grow the eco-system in multiple directions at once?

Thanks for your time Sir!

Hey @ura-soul, great to hear from you! I am very sorry I missed your proposal. Please feel free to reach out to me directly in the future if something like that comes up, or anything else really.

I know first hand about how expensive and completely ineffective "marketing agencies" can be. When the SPS token first launched we hired a marketing agency to promote it for a little while and it was exactly as you said. I prefer to hire someone directly who is part of the Splinterlands team to lead the marketing effort rather than an external agency. This person would be responsible for working with the rest of the Splinterlands team and the community (which is our biggest asset) to figure out how to make the largest impact with the least expense.

Since taking over Splinterlands last September one of my top priorities has been massively reducing our expenses and squeezing as much value as possible out of everything we spend. I would never just throw money at a marketing agency. The future of the company, my livelihood, and my reputation are on the line here.

Assuming we get the funds to do so, whether from the DHF or elsewhere, we will interview a lot of people (and possibly some agencies) to try to find someone who I am confident is an expert in web3 marketing specifically and who will think outside the box and come up with new and creative ways to get very obvious and significant results. We've also already been working on implementing a lot more analytics and tracking within the game to make sure we can quickly and easily measure the results of anything we do and I will cut the cord quickly on anything, or anyone, that isn't getting results.

As for your two specific questions:

1. Repaying the funds isn't something we can realistically do. We are going to need to spend the funds on the marketing efforts, so if it turns out to be unsuccessful at achieving the growth we are looking for, we simply won't have $500k available to repay. I understand that this is a risk for the Hive community. The proposal is asking for an investment that has potential risk as well as potential reward. Ultimately it all comes down to whether the Hive community thinks the reward (i.e. a highly successful application on Hive that brings in lots of users and attention) is worth the risk, and whether or not they feel the Splinterlands team can deliver.

2. I really think that the best way forward is for the vast majority of new users to onboard through an app, like Splinterlands, rather than onboarding to Hive more generally as most Hive users do today. That experience is typically pretty different depending on the app, but I am very open to at least open-sourcing the back-end code that we build to help other apps build similar onboarding experiences. Once users onboard to Splinterlands, which includes creating their Hive wallet, setting up Keychain, etc., then over time they will be exposed to more and more of the Hive ecosystem which I think is more natural. Not sure if you saw the follow-up post to the proposal but in there we specify that we plan to teach players the basics of Hive and encourage them to explore the ecosystem as part of our revamped onboarding process.

Hope that helps. I understand that this is a big proposal, and definitely no hard feelings if you (or anyone else) decide that it's not a good opportunity for the DHF. No matter how this turns out we'll still be here doing what we can to try to build a breakout web3 game on the Hive blockchain. Also, not sure if you're going to Hive fest but if you are it would be great to catch up in person.

Hey Matt, thanks for replying here.
I actually did message you directly about the strategizer proposal via Discord, as that's the only point of contact I had - also Aggroed, but got no replies. Is there a better place to message you? I don't think I'm part of the Splinterlands slack any more.

Can you clarify what you meant when you said that you would hire someone from within the Splinterlands team? Maybe I am misunderstanding, but wouldn't they already be being paid by Splinterlands? Do you mean that you want to direct someone from your existing team to then find an external agency?

As I mentioned numerous times during the Strategizer discussions, I am all for DHF money being used to market Hive, but as someone with a few years of experience marketing online (plus having also built my own social network previously), it's very clear to me why the significant spends to date have not achieved anything measurable (and the people involved continue to employ the same thinking). So it was especially frustrating to see the community reject the only logical step to correct this (an internally directed research project). I know that your business depends on your actions here and also know that having a centralised effort is beneficial in these situations to direct energy and get tasks completed - so on this alone I expect you guys to do better than Hive itself has done so far.

I have tried to on-board numerous people to Hive, even people with crypto experience - I even wrote them guides.. None of them are users today. I see that part of this is caused by the complete failure of all Hive sites to provide education about the blockchain and UI systems - leaving users confused and de-motivated. At some point I will solve this myself if no-one else does.

Sure, I will probably be at Hivefest - yes, I agree, it would be great to meet again. We actually chatted a while over dinner in Poland IIRC. Thanks for reminding me actually, I need to book some tickets! ;)

I look forward to your response here. Cheers!

I am very sorry about that...I just searched for you in Discord and saw that you did indeed message me about that. I guess I must have missed it. I turn off Discord notifications when I'm working and sometimes I come back to a deluge of messages and things can fall through the cracks. Please don't hesitate to ping me again in the future if I don't respond to something, or you can also message me on the Mattermost Hive chat. I get a lot fewer messages there.

> Can you clarify what you meant when you said that you would hire someone from within the Splinterlands team?

Sorry - I worded this poorly. What I mean is that I want to hire someone new, who would then become part of the Splinterlands team. I think someone who is directly part of the team as their full time job will be much more motivated and get better results than someone at an agency who is just assigned to the project.

> I have tried to on-board numerous people to Hive, even people with crypto experience - I even wrote them guides.. None of them are users today. I see that part of this is caused by the complete failure of all Hive sites to provide education about the blockchain and UI systems - leaving users confused and de-motivated. At some point I will solve this myself if no-one else does.

I have had similar experiences, which is why I don't think direct onboarding to Hive is the way to go. Even if better education options were available, my guess is that most people won't be motivated enough to spend the time to consume the education materials.

Instead, I think Hive should aim to have lots of great apps, and users will onboard to an app that interests them and then will naturally over time start learning about Hive and exploring more of the ecosystem just as a result of them using an app that is on the platform.

There are definitely a good number of people that discovered Hive and went on to participate in the ecosystem just because they played Splinterlands (I know this anecdotally, but it would be neat if someone could do some kind of analysis to determine how many accounts that started with Splinterlands went on to participate more generally on Hive). If those same people were onboarded to Hive directly, my guess is they would probably not be interested, but because they were exposed to it through something they are more naturally interested in it was a smoother experience.

I think this is the case for pretty much all blockchains. I personally don't just go and use other blockchains, but I will use them if there's an app I want to try out that is built there. To me, that is why Hive is falling so far behind. There are either not enough apps that people want to use, or people just don't know about the apps that are here because we don't promote them like other platforms can. This is what this proposal is all about and what I think Splinterlands is in the best position to provide right now - getting the word out to the broader web3 community about a fun and engaging game on Hive as a way to successfully onboard lots of new users to the ecosystem.

Ok, understood - I realised through that proposal process that the proposal system desperately needs better communications and notifications built in - the PeakD team took up my suggestion of adding in notifications for new proposals, but I'm not sure how much that has helped.

> What I mean is that I want to hire someone new, who would then become part of the Splinterlands team.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

> my guess is that most people won't be motivated enough to spend the time to consume the education materials.

I am thinking more of the type of education info that is built-in to the UI as is found in triple A games, so they can't be totally avoided, but are non invasive, intelligent/dynamic and are also potentially gamified or at least truly useful!

Most of the people I invite are creative people and/or smart - they love the idea of hive but are repelled by it's details unfortunately - anything that can be done to increase retention, should really be done - as otherwise traffic driven by any marketing efforts are like pouring water into a sieve. I know from my own social network that it there is a desire to get users as fast as possible, but if that skips over the on-site optimisation needed to retain them, then it's counter productive.

As far as your proposal goes, I am for it. I just want to make sure that there is something in it for the rest of Hive too. I know you have highlighted some ideas already in that direction. Perhaps the most obvious opportunity in that direction I can think of is to nudge Splinterlands users to become Hive bloggers and to get them using generic Hive social networks to do that, rather than directing them to Splintertalk - do you think that's possible?

I will vote on this now. :)

[@PowerPaul:] Sure. I used every account I have in my network to vote for it.

May the chain be with you!

@yabapmatt The main issue I see is that we have no way to communicate. Most hive projects use Discord but that is just a chat room and so as a player I struggle to know what is going on with SPL and Hive in general. We need a forum and wiki page. If we create a proper discussion forum it would be amazing for SPL and hive!

@yabapmatt Would it be possible to update this proposal with a break down of current operating costs and revenue of the company? So we can see just how bad/good thing are and gauge roughly how much would end up keeping splinterlands afloat and how much would actually get spent on marketing.

I'm a hive witness supporting the blockchain please consider voting for me.

Have we come up with a cost break-down of where funding may be funelled? Right now it's probably the biggest thing preventing funding. If @yabamatt can reveal even a basic outline, I believe it will instill some confidence to the wider Hive community to get this to funding. I believe while there are some who may not be swayed, there are more who want to see Splinterlands achieve results seen previously to the benefit of the Hive community but lack a little information to appease their concerns. I as one have invested significantly into Hive because I found Splinterlands and discovered Hive. Maybe Hivers need some reassurance that Splinterlands is great for Hive. I am in Hive personally because of Splinterlands. I love both Splinterlands and Hive and hope my small input would help see others realise the impact Splinterlands has had and why we need to continue to support this project as part of the wider Hive Chain.