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 --- A GOPHER-LIKE INTERFACE FOR HIVE BLOCKCHAIN ---

Whale drama

BY: @zeddjacob | CREATED: March 5, 2018, 12:49 p.m. | VOTES: 5 | PAYOUT: $0.13 | [ VOTE ]

I always see @berniesanders post rants about @haejin. And his last post here attracted so much attention, it trended.

It actually got plenty of smart comments about the matter and multiple other trolls and loyal fans of @haejin.

Theres actually one comment that caught my attention (maybe because it was long and detailed? hahaha)

> So there are multiple things you can do, and as mobbs has pointed out, there is flagawhale.
>
> First, have your heard the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." well while this won't be true in terms of voting strengths (due to linear rewards) it is true in another aspect. If we had 1000 people flagging these posts with a diverse set of MV (or SP) then there would be no way for haejin/rancho/done/btu...etc to flag everyone backwithout destroying their VP to near 0.
>
> Healing factor: Because they will likely concentrate their flags to the people that either A: spam more, or B: hold more SP then everyone can work together to counteract the flag and only vote enough to counteract a flag (as a reaction) in terms of both value and rep. Thus if they had happened to flag a smaller user, we could repair the damage.
>
> Lets say we had 750 minnows with 0.00-3.47 dollar vote and lets say the average vote amongst all of them was 0.12 meaning the minnows could effective take or give $90 worth of votes, I know that is nothing compared to the whales but in the group there will be whales, and dolphins all working together and honestly, every bit helps.
>
> I don't know, its a thought.
>
> -@kryzsec

Suggesting a downvote war or something? I think so?

Because from what I know, @haejin is getting hate because his "false" speculations about any crypto market gets a ton of upvotes which people consider as shit posts, where they consider @haejin is raping the reward pool.

He has >25k followers on steemit which he earned from his 9 months on steemit, maybe these people profited from his calls early on that's why they were loyal to him. Although his frequent posts on his analysis on markets seems off. Idk what's the reason but I'm neutral within this drama. It's just that trending posts (like @adsactly's or @slowwalker's) that actually matter gets overlooked because @haejin's posts are always lined on the trending page.

That's my side of the story.

> I'd prefer to stay away from market analysis by other people, so I do it myself. And so should you, so you won't cry and rant to these people when you lost money because of their calls.

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Zed

TAGS: [ #drama ] [ #steemit ] [ #whalepower ] [ #steemph ] [ #philippines ]

Replies

@whalepower | March 5, 2018, 2:32 p.m. | Votes: 3 | [ VOTE ]

No one Cares for them!
Stop using #whalepower for this type of content.
It is a Joke!

@zeddjacob | March 5, 2018, 10:01 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

Sorry, idk what should I post on #whalepower. I used the tag because there's a whale drama happening.

@jdc | March 7, 2018, 3:55 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

Totally what I would've used it for.

Also #steemdrama

@zeddjacob | March 7, 2018, 4:02 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

there's like... one posted with #steemdrama as a tag. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (backslash doesn't work, and I'm bad at HTML 😢)

@jdc | March 7, 2018, 4:07 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

I know, but with the amount of drama from this war I think it would be good to get that tag going strong. For there will always be drama on a social network.

@zeddjacob | March 7, 2018, 4:13 p.m. | Votes: 2 | [ VOTE ]

Lol that's very true hahahahahah

*eventually another dramaalert type of user trends on steemit* 🤔🤔

@precise | March 8, 2018, 7:16 a.m. | Votes: 2 | [ VOTE ]

whalepower

@whalepower | March 8, 2018, 7:20 a.m. | Votes: 4 | [ VOTE ]

@precise

@dragonpower

@precise | March 8, 2018, 9:58 a.m. | Votes: 2 | [ VOTE ]

@whalepower

@duterte

@kryzsec | March 5, 2018, 6:11 p.m. | Votes: 3 | [ VOTE ]

Hi I uh, I am going to defend my position since you appear to be against the voting war.

The voting war, though had a brief pause, has been going on for a few months now. The reason why we are flagging haejin has nothing to do with the type of content he promotes but rather something else. If you look at haejins posts right now yo will see many 200+ valued posts, and at 10 posts a day he is earning roughly 1000 SBD and 250 Steem (per day) which is equal to roughly $5000. The problem is that the money he is earning comes from a shared pool meaning everyone on steemit earns from the same pool of money called the reward pool, if the reward pool is draining faster than it can fill up then then we have problems. Anyways, of the recent rewards, haejin is taking a disproportionate amount of the reward pool for himself. This type of behavior is toxic for steem. To make matters worse, he upvotes himself almost exclusively and will flag anyone that has a differing opinion, I mean I commented on his post about science (not about crypto) about how the science was incorrect and offered a correction and got flagged...

This has nothing to do with us hating on his TA or being jealous that he is making bank, its that him making that much money puts the rest of steem at risk. Not sure if you noticed but in January, 50SP was good enough for around a 0.023 valued vote, now it is dropped to between 0.013 and 0.017 even though the value of steem has only dropped $1 meaning it should have, under optimal conditions, dropped at most to 0.018... The extra drop is due to the reward fund getting lower.

You do not have to join, but if every whale and dolphin was doing what Haejin is doing, even the largest whales would have difficulty making a vote worth more than $1 because the reward fund would drain so rapidly, and do to the excess in steem in the market the value will drop to nothing and SBD will likely drop to $1 and then rise over time until steem recovers, which may be never...

So a select group of whales, dolphins, minnows, and the like are voting on haejin's posts to decrease the value to show that we do not tolerate such behavior... And we get hit by haejin and his followers. Some people lose a lot of rep (one guy went from 48 to 16 in the past 12 hours)

So whether you choose to ignore it or not, what is happening is very real, and has the potential to do a lot more damage than one might think.

@zeddjacob | March 5, 2018, 9:59 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

I'm sorry I never meant to offend anyone, but now I understand the real reason why @haejin is hated by everybody and I thank you for that. I think that other responsible minnows, dolphins, orcas and whales deserves @haejin's share of the reward pool. Is there any flag trail I can follow?

@kryzsec | March 5, 2018, 10:05 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

You didn't offend anyone?

I just came to defend my position on the subject, everyone has their own opinions on it. I don't know about trails in specific, potentially the stewardsofgondor have something, you could always ask around in flag-a-whale and stuff. You can check out there discord somewhere, I believe its on the account posts @flagawhale

That being said, if you do join up in this then you have the potential to get flagged by the other side (we can nurse you back and counter their flags) but still.

@zeddjacob | March 5, 2018, 11:14 p.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

I believe more people deserve a better share of the reward pool than him. Future steemians will have a hard time using the platform if they get 20 upvotes with no value at all, it's disheartening. I'm lucky to get cents from my posts and even luckier when whales notice me. And thank you again for making things clear.

@jdc | March 7, 2018, 4:14 p.m. | Votes: 0 | [ VOTE ]

Yeah, the first time around I think I was on Bernie's side. He's gotten a lot more vitriolic this time around though. The more of his posts I see, the more I think he's playing us all for fools.

Yeah, haejin gets a large share of the pool, but so does Bernie. This war is really just making the rest of us victims. Haejin also has the benefit of the doubt by having some really good people. I'm not sure where @good-karma stands on the issue, but I've never seen his name flag a post.

The First Golden Rule of Steem: Good neighbors don't flag.

@kryzsec | March 7, 2018, 8:59 p.m. | Votes: 2 | [ VOTE ]

The two have a nowhere near comparable share of the reward pool...

Berniesanders, being on steemit pretty much since the beginning (one of the early miners) has over his entire time on steemit collected 13,736.41 steem from the reward pool as an author.

Haejin, in his time here (since last June so less than half the time) has taken 40,839.71 steem from the reward pool as an author.

In the past 30 days:

BerniesandersHaejin
Author SP631.81 6,923.86

In the past 7 days:

BerniesandersHaejin
Author SP103.25940.68

Voting habits last 7 days:

Bernie: 37.58 % self, 489 upvotes, 257 accounts
Haejin: 85.36 % self, 140 upvotes, 24 accounts

That means around 14.6% of haejin's votes get distributed amongst 24 other accounts and 62.4% of bernies vote has been distributed amongst over 200 accounts... I wish there was a tool that would allow you to check the amount of curation rewards one gathers from posts that they didn't author (voting on your own posts does allow for you to claim curation rewards) because if we look at curation rewards collected... Well, yeah.

But lets just finalize it with this. Haejin (when calculating his value in the reward fund for the past 7 days) is around 2.133%

Bernie on the other hand is at 0.226% of total reward fund... Your arguments are invalid

@jdc | March 8, 2018, 2:33 a.m. | Votes: 0 | [ VOTE ]

My argument was essentially that Bernie is a dick in the comment section.

@kryzsec | March 8, 2018, 2:54 a.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

>Yeah, haejin gets a large share of the pool, but so does Bernie

^^^

>This war is really just making the rest of us victims

If we weren't flagging haejin, his share would be higher

>Haejin also has the benefit of the doubt by having some really good people.

Haejin has some pretty fucking horrible people too, like I could go on about that.

>The First Golden Rule of Steem: Good neighbors don't flag.

Read the white paper, flagging (i.e. downvoting) was designed to be part of the proof of brain algorithm. It hurts nobody. You want to know what was uncalled for in the whitepaper, voting bots and bidbots.

>He's gotten a lot more vitriolic this time around though. The more of his posts I see, the more I think he's playing us all for fools.

This was your only comment about bernie being a dick. That being said, it wouldn't be difficult to come up with examples (going back to December) of the otherside calling bernie a nazi (for example) amongst many other things so its not one side showing malice.

@jdc | March 8, 2018, 4:51 p.m. | Votes: 0 | [ VOTE ]

you make some good points I'll grant you that.

I've never read the whitepaper, or the bluepaper. It's on that massive todo list labeled 'Things I need to get around to'. Can you give me the nutshell of how flagging is incorporated into Proof of Brain? I see how it's a necessary part of the social network in general.

I still stand by "Good neighbors don't flag."

Edited for spelling

@kryzsec | March 8, 2018, 6:27 p.m. | Votes: 5 | [ VOTE ]

From the whitepaper:

The Story of the Crab Bucket

A man was walking along the beach and saw another man fishing in the surf with a bait bucket beside him. As he drew closer, he saw that the bait bucket had no lid and had live crabs inside. "Why don't you cover your bait bucket so the crabs won't escape?", he said. "You don't understand.", the man replied, "If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them." So it is with people. If one tries to do something different, get better grades, improve herself, escape her environment, or dream big dreams, other people will try to drag her back down to share their fate

Anyways if you read the relevant sections in the whitepaper on voting (upvotes and downvotes) you will see many things become apparent. Firstly that steemit is a live action experiment for the prisoners dilemma with n-prisoners and that the problems happening with haejin were predicted long ago.

Though quoting the paper is hard do to the character they use for spaces (its a pdf that isn't encoded as plaintext) so copying from it provides strange symbols and the formatting goes haywire. So instead I will do a paraphrasing:

> If everyone were to vote for themselves then there would be no progress in the system and the currency would fail. If one person votes for themselves then that person will get undeserving rewards.

Well considering we have an over 50% average of voting power being used on self voting (and haejin is not helping that number with ~86% of his voting power used on himself) we see a problem there. However this is covered in the beginning of the voting abusesection on how to handle a specific case like this:

paraphrasing
>The ones with the most stake in steem have the most to lose from self voting. Think about this, if a CEO decided to stop paying everyone and take all the profits for himself then everyone would stop working and leave. Fortunately, any work getting a high concentration of votes (upvotes) will also be subject to higher levels of scrutiny. Through the addition of negative-voting it is possible for large numbers of smaller stakeholders to nullify the rewards of collusive groups Furthermore large stakeholders have more to gain by negative-voting than they do from upvoting themselves [, because if the currency falls to 0 then all of their efforts are worthless.] In fact, larger stakeholders are likely to be more effective at policing abuse [, which includes collusive voting and self voting,] than they would by voting for smaller contributions.

You can read the white paper (and relative sections) here or by clicking the three bars in top right-hand corner and scrolling down to the steem white paper.

The relevant sections are:

Distributing Currency
Voting on Distribution of Currency
Voting Abuse
Crab-Bucket story

The question now comes to one that is implied at the end of voting abuse when talking about crab mentality which is:

Is [Haejin] the abuser profiting at the expense of others?

My argument, when looking into it, is yes. So irregardless of Bernie or Transisto or whomever someone wants to put as the face to this anti-haejin campaign, I believe haejin is getting collusive votes and is taking an irrationally large sum of the reward pool for a single person. There is a website that lists everyone by their expected payout (i.e. the sum of all of the payout values) and haejin (ranking in the number 1 position) was around 2 and a half times the next person. The only difference is haejin has been ranking number 1 for weeks. More to how haejin is harming steem as a whole is in part of each time a post pays out, it removes steem from the reward pool. When enough steem is removed then the value of votes decreases (as the value of a vote s proportional to the steem in the reward pool) as well when a single user (like haejin) holds so much steem and actively makes it liquid (i.e. trades it away) the value decreases as there is an influx of it (this is a common law of monetary inflation, and basically haejin is like the Weimar republic by using steem to basically print his money) and since the vote is also proportional to the value of steem (which has been declining) its not hard to realize that our votes to counter the abuse are dwindling...

To add another layer of abuse is that there are many sources that show just how inaccurate his TA's are (one of which was a mock portfolio made of all the cryptos that haejin said would go up,well the value of that portfolio is in the negatives had you actually bought into them, and a lot negative)

Now going to be external from this is to give a brief definition of PoB (Proof of Brain) as it is defined in the bluepaper (not whitepaper) which describes PoB as:

>Token systems that reward users as they contribute to a token-based community system require
mechanisms for establishing and evaluating content’s social value: we call this “Proof-of-Brain.”

and thats about the extent of it with exception of some minor details later on. What this means is that as a user you are supposed to read something and decide on what you think it is worth, if you think it is worth more than it is receiving than it is receiving than you should upvote it proportionally, if you think it is worth less than you should downvote it. Each person will have their own value that they give the post and somewhere along the way the value should average out between that based upon some function of their stake in the system and what they believe the value should be. Well when haejin has people vote on his TA's within seconds of creation (even the ones with videos) or large stakeholder users come along and vote all 10 of his TA's in rapid succession it brings into question whether they actually read the content or not.

Anyways, this is my take on it.

@kryzsec | March 8, 2018, 6:29 p.m. | Votes: 2 | [ VOTE ]

Upvoting this one with 1% (not enough to add value, just putting it above the other one)

TL;DR
PoB is essentially where everyone whom reads content decides what they value it at. If its value is higher than the current payout then it would be suggested that they upvote it. If it is lower than the current payout then it is suggested they downvote it. This is supposed to work to find an equilibrium of where the post is actually valued

@zeddjacob | March 8, 2018, 10:36 a.m. | Votes: 1 | [ VOTE ]

This comment here is better suited to be listed on trending, more people should see the percent of haejin's share of the reward pool. Because most people will never lookup haejin's account on steem.supply (that's what I feel).

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